[Plone-UI] Placeless Adding help needed

Jure Cerjak jcerjak at termitnjak.si
Fri Feb 22 08:24:56 UTC 2013


"One last thing, if we ever get a more robust folder contents or 
"structure" menu where we can globally manage content for plone in a 
better way, this might be less of a problem"

I'd love to see an additional or improved folder contents view - a tree, 
where you can see all the site's content, edit, delete, move items 
around.. Other option would be something like 
https://pypi.python.org/pypi/bda.plone.finder or github-like browser 
(ajax loading + you have a clear overview of the current path, which is 
something you might not have in your Plone theme, if there is no path bar).

But that's a topic for another discussion.

On placeless adding I have nothing really helpful to say, except that 
I'm +1 on this. I'm not sure how to realize this. Maybe if users (or 
admin) had the option to bookmark certain sections of the site (e.g. 
'Banners', 'Events', 'Media releases', ...), which would be easy 
accessible from the menu ('Go to -> ...' ), it might be somewhat helpful.

cheers,
ibi


On 02/21/2013 02:56 AM, Nathan Van Gheem wrote:
> First off, let me just say, I feel your pain. We've had users have a 
> difficult time knowing where to add. Those same users will most likely 
> have a difficult time managing content with large sites on any system 
> though. Plone's folder structure is a pretty nature way to organize 
> content; however, we do need to think of ways to make it better.
>
> With that, I'll say a few thoughts here as I'm on both the UI and 
> Framework team:
>
> - The implementation described makes the UI more complicated and 
> actually requires the user to think more.
> - There are already other ways to solve this problem. One being what 
> Jon just described, another by creation your own custom factory urls
> - The global add concept still seems awkward. How do you set which 
> types have that ability and are there default locations they add to? 
> Can there be multiple add locations?
> - Because of some of these points, it seems like this is more, at 
> least at this point, an integrator level problem--there are ways to 
> solve it and they can be addressed by integrators.
> - https://github.com/plone/plone.app.contentmenu/issues/2 provides 
> another way to add additional "add new" menu items.
> - This is definitely a plip where it's better to first implement it as 
> an addon so we can see it working somehow first before we accept the 
> implementation.
>
> - One last thing, if we ever get a more robust folder contents or 
> "structure" menu where we can globally manage content for plone in a 
> better way, this might be less of a problem
>
> So, with all that being said, let's not end the discussion here. 
> Perhaps, we just need to work through a difficult solution.
>
>
> -Nathan
>
>
> On Wed, Feb 20, 2013 at 7:35 PM, Jon Stahl <jonstahl at gmail.com 
> <mailto:jonstahl at gmail.com>> wrote:
>
>     Dylan-
>
>     You know, I've had this use case and very successfully solved it with
>     just a simple content rule to "move all items of type X to WHERE THEY
>     BELONG."  Users can create those content types anywhere, but then
>     poof, they magically go to the place they're supposed to be as soon as
>     they hit save.
>
>     :Jon
>
>
>     On Wed, Feb 20, 2013 at 5:12 PM, Dylan Jay <djay at pretaweb.com
>     <mailto:djay at pretaweb.com>> wrote:
>     > Hi,
>     >
>     > You might remember awhile back I talked about "Placeless
>     Adding". Since then
>     > I have submitted it as PLIP and it was rejected on the grounds
>     that the
>     > implementation wasn't accepted. Despite this, I believe that
>     this issue is
>     > still something that needs to be addressed in Plone and I
>     thought that it
>     > would be good to go back to the beginning and with the
>     collective UX wisdom
>     > on this list, come up with a more acceptable solution to this
>     problem.
>     >
>     > Plone's UI for adding content for types that live in a specific
>     location
>     > have some complexities which can be a frustration for users.
>     Namely, users
>     > need to have special knowledge of where that content should be
>     placed and in
>     > creating that content it requires many clicks to navigate to
>     that section of
>     > the site and add the content. Wordpress sites prove to be far
>     easier in this
>     > regard because the "blog post" type is immediately available on
>     the front
>     > page though an "add post" button and represents 99% of the
>     content adding
>     > content use cases.
>     >
>     > In some larger sites the problem becomes far worse. Particularly
>     where you
>     > have a front page composed of multiple content sources and types
>     drawn from
>     > different parts of the site managed by different people. This
>     was the case
>     > for one of our clients who operated one of the largest Plone
>     sites in the
>     > world - we were not the implementers of this site but just
>     giving support,
>     > however, they have recently decided to switch to another CMS for
>     a variety
>     > of reasons. One of those reasons we can identify is that for
>     content editors
>     > it had become complex to train and operate place sensitive
>     content buried 3
>     > or 4 levels deep. This situation needs lots of navigation clicks
>     to jump
>     > between those sections of the site making the experience rather
>     frustrating.
>     > Most users only had edit access to these specific sections.
>     >
>     > As someone pointed out earlier, even in the initial Plone
>     install we have an
>     > events folder and a news folder. You need to learn to go there
>     to add those
>     > kinds of content. This seems natural to us but the concept of
>     where you add
>     > something matters a lot, we have to teach every time to new
>     users. Instead
>     > this could be simplified so that News only goes to the news
>     folder and
>     > events only go the events folder and we had a way to make it
>     easy to add
>     > either of those from anywhere. This should, I believe, make for
>     a simpler
>     > experience and a more gentle introduction when coming from a
>     different CMS.
>     >
>     > Do you agree?
>     >
>     > If so, whats the best UX to implement this?
>     >
>     >
>     >
>     > Adam Terrey
>     > Software Engineer
>     > PretaWeb
>     >
>     > Visit our website
>     > Email me at adam.terrey at pretaweb.com
>     <mailto:adam.terrey at pretaweb.com>
>     > Call me on +61 2 8203 4021 <tel:%2B61%202%208203%204021>
>     >
>     > Multi-site solutions for high availability and scalability.
>     > Find out about Plone
>     >
>     >
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-- 
Jure Cerjak
Termitnjak d.o.o.

Web: http://www.termitnjak.com
Tel: +386 (0)40 162-740
Email: jcerjak at termitnjak.si
Skype: jurecerjak

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