[Plone-UI] Placeless Adding help needed

Nathan Van Gheem vangheem at gmail.com
Thu Feb 21 01:59:48 UTC 2013


And a link to the plip for those following the discussion:
https://dev.plone.org/ticket/13397


On Wed, Feb 20, 2013 at 7:56 PM, Nathan Van Gheem <vangheem at gmail.com>wrote:

> First off, let me just say, I feel your pain. We've had users have a
> difficult time knowing where to add. Those same users will most likely have
> a difficult time managing content with large sites on any system though.
> Plone's folder structure is a pretty nature way to organize content;
> however, we do need to think of ways to make it better.
>
> With that, I'll say a few thoughts here as I'm on both the UI and
> Framework team:
>
> - The implementation described makes the UI more complicated and actually
> requires the user to think more.
> - There are already other ways to solve this problem. One being what Jon
> just described, another by creation your own custom factory urls
> - The global add concept still seems awkward. How do you set which types
> have that ability and are there default locations they add to? Can there be
> multiple add locations?
> - Because of some of these points, it seems like this is more, at least at
> this point, an integrator level problem--there are ways to solve it and
> they can be addressed by integrators.
> - https://github.com/plone/plone.app.contentmenu/issues/2 provides
> another way to add additional "add new" menu items.
> - This is definitely a plip where it's better to first implement it as an
> addon so we can see it working somehow first before we accept the
> implementation.
>
> - One last thing, if we ever get a more robust folder contents or
> "structure" menu where we can globally manage content for plone in a better
> way, this might be less of a problem
>
> So, with all that being said, let's not end the discussion here. Perhaps,
> we just need to work through a difficult solution.
>
>
> -Nathan
>
>
> On Wed, Feb 20, 2013 at 7:35 PM, Jon Stahl <jonstahl at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Dylan-
>>
>> You know, I've had this use case and very successfully solved it with
>> just a simple content rule to "move all items of type X to WHERE THEY
>> BELONG."  Users can create those content types anywhere, but then
>> poof, they magically go to the place they're supposed to be as soon as
>> they hit save.
>>
>> :Jon
>>
>>
>> On Wed, Feb 20, 2013 at 5:12 PM, Dylan Jay <djay at pretaweb.com> wrote:
>> > Hi,
>> >
>> > You might remember awhile back I talked about "Placeless Adding". Since
>> then
>> > I have submitted it as PLIP and it was rejected on the grounds that the
>> > implementation wasn't accepted. Despite this, I believe that this issue
>> is
>> > still something that needs to be addressed in Plone and I thought that
>> it
>> > would be good to go back to the beginning and with the collective UX
>> wisdom
>> > on this list, come up with a more acceptable solution to this problem.
>> >
>> > Plone's UI for adding content for types that live in a specific location
>> > have some complexities which can be a frustration for users. Namely,
>> users
>> > need to have special knowledge of where that content should be placed
>> and in
>> > creating that content it requires many clicks to navigate to that
>> section of
>> > the site and add the content. Wordpress sites prove to be far easier in
>> this
>> > regard because the "blog post" type is immediately available on the
>> front
>> > page though an "add post" button and represents 99% of the content
>> adding
>> > content use cases.
>> >
>> > In some larger sites the problem becomes far worse. Particularly where
>> you
>> > have a front page composed of multiple content sources and types drawn
>> from
>> > different parts of the site managed by different people. This was the
>> case
>> > for one of our clients who operated one of the largest Plone sites in
>> the
>> > world - we were not the implementers of this site but just giving
>> support,
>> > however, they have recently decided to switch to another CMS for a
>> variety
>> > of reasons. One of those reasons we can identify is that for content
>> editors
>> > it had become complex to train and operate place sensitive content
>> buried 3
>> > or 4 levels deep. This situation needs lots of navigation clicks to jump
>> > between those sections of the site making the experience rather
>> frustrating.
>> > Most users only had edit access to these specific sections.
>> >
>> > As someone pointed out earlier, even in the initial Plone install we
>> have an
>> > events folder and a news folder. You need to learn to go there to add
>> those
>> > kinds of content. This seems natural to us but the concept of where you
>> add
>> > something matters a lot, we have to teach every time to new users.
>> Instead
>> > this could be simplified so that News only goes to the news folder and
>> > events only go the events folder and we had a way to make it easy to add
>> > either of those from anywhere. This should, I believe, make for a
>> simpler
>> > experience and a more gentle introduction when coming from a different
>> CMS.
>> >
>> > Do you agree?
>> >
>> > If so, whats the best UX to implement this?
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > Adam Terrey
>> > Software Engineer
>> > PretaWeb
>> >
>> > Visit our website
>> > Email me at adam.terrey at pretaweb.com
>> > Call me on +61 2 8203 4021
>> >
>> > Multi-site solutions for high availability and scalability.
>> > Find out about Plone
>> >
>> >
>> > _______________________________________________
>> > UI mailing list
>> > UI at lists.plone.org
>> > https://lists.plone.org/mailman/listinfo/plone-ui
>> >
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>
>
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