[Plone-UI] Placeless Adding help needed

Nathan Van Gheem vangheem at gmail.com
Thu Feb 21 01:56:55 UTC 2013

First off, let me just say, I feel your pain. We've had users have a
difficult time knowing where to add. Those same users will most likely have
a difficult time managing content with large sites on any system though.
Plone's folder structure is a pretty nature way to organize content;
however, we do need to think of ways to make it better.

With that, I'll say a few thoughts here as I'm on both the UI and Framework

- The implementation described makes the UI more complicated and actually
requires the user to think more.
- There are already other ways to solve this problem. One being what Jon
just described, another by creation your own custom factory urls
- The global add concept still seems awkward. How do you set which types
have that ability and are there default locations they add to? Can there be
multiple add locations?
- Because of some of these points, it seems like this is more, at least at
this point, an integrator level problem--there are ways to solve it and
they can be addressed by integrators.
- https://github.com/plone/plone.app.contentmenu/issues/2 provides another
way to add additional "add new" menu items.
- This is definitely a plip where it's better to first implement it as an
addon so we can see it working somehow first before we accept the

- One last thing, if we ever get a more robust folder contents or
"structure" menu where we can globally manage content for plone in a better
way, this might be less of a problem

So, with all that being said, let's not end the discussion here. Perhaps,
we just need to work through a difficult solution.


On Wed, Feb 20, 2013 at 7:35 PM, Jon Stahl <jonstahl at gmail.com> wrote:

> Dylan-
> You know, I've had this use case and very successfully solved it with
> just a simple content rule to "move all items of type X to WHERE THEY
> BELONG."  Users can create those content types anywhere, but then
> poof, they magically go to the place they're supposed to be as soon as
> they hit save.
> :Jon
> On Wed, Feb 20, 2013 at 5:12 PM, Dylan Jay <djay at pretaweb.com> wrote:
> > Hi,
> >
> > You might remember awhile back I talked about "Placeless Adding". Since
> then
> > I have submitted it as PLIP and it was rejected on the grounds that the
> > implementation wasn't accepted. Despite this, I believe that this issue
> is
> > still something that needs to be addressed in Plone and I thought that it
> > would be good to go back to the beginning and with the collective UX
> wisdom
> > on this list, come up with a more acceptable solution to this problem.
> >
> > Plone's UI for adding content for types that live in a specific location
> > have some complexities which can be a frustration for users. Namely,
> users
> > need to have special knowledge of where that content should be placed
> and in
> > creating that content it requires many clicks to navigate to that
> section of
> > the site and add the content. Wordpress sites prove to be far easier in
> this
> > regard because the "blog post" type is immediately available on the front
> > page though an "add post" button and represents 99% of the content adding
> > content use cases.
> >
> > In some larger sites the problem becomes far worse. Particularly where
> you
> > have a front page composed of multiple content sources and types drawn
> from
> > different parts of the site managed by different people. This was the
> case
> > for one of our clients who operated one of the largest Plone sites in the
> > world - we were not the implementers of this site but just giving
> support,
> > however, they have recently decided to switch to another CMS for a
> variety
> > of reasons. One of those reasons we can identify is that for content
> editors
> > it had become complex to train and operate place sensitive content
> buried 3
> > or 4 levels deep. This situation needs lots of navigation clicks to jump
> > between those sections of the site making the experience rather
> frustrating.
> > Most users only had edit access to these specific sections.
> >
> > As someone pointed out earlier, even in the initial Plone install we
> have an
> > events folder and a news folder. You need to learn to go there to add
> those
> > kinds of content. This seems natural to us but the concept of where you
> add
> > something matters a lot, we have to teach every time to new users.
> Instead
> > this could be simplified so that News only goes to the news folder and
> > events only go the events folder and we had a way to make it easy to add
> > either of those from anywhere. This should, I believe, make for a simpler
> > experience and a more gentle introduction when coming from a different
> CMS.
> >
> > Do you agree?
> >
> > If so, whats the best UX to implement this?
> >
> >
> >
> > Adam Terrey
> > Software Engineer
> > PretaWeb
> >
> > Visit our website
> > Email me at adam.terrey at pretaweb.com
> > Call me on +61 2 8203 4021
> >
> > Multi-site solutions for high availability and scalability.
> > Find out about Plone
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > UI mailing list
> > UI at lists.plone.org
> > https://lists.plone.org/mailman/listinfo/plone-ui
> >
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