[Plone-UI] ui team next week

Kim Paulissen Kim.Paulissen at icts.kuleuven.be
Tue Dec 4 15:53:43 UTC 2012 

I can't make it next week, we have an infomeeting away from home that night.
I reviewed some ui bugs on dev.plone.org, I'll add the progress to the hangout notes.
Also, like Thijs' tickets, some more input might be needed on some of the existing ui tickets, so I'll try to add some to the agenda for next week's ui meeting.
I'll add my thoughts on https://dev.plone.org/ticket/13355 and https://dev.plone.org/ticket/13358 in the tickets by then...
Sorry, it's been a bit hectic the last few weeks here, so didn't make much progress...

Kim 
-----Oorspronkelijk bericht-----
Van: plone-ui-bounces at lists.plone.org [mailto:plone-ui-bounces at lists.plone.org] Namens plone-ui-request at lists.plone.org
Verzonden: dinsdag 4 december 2012 15:44
Aan: plone-ui at lists.plone.org
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Today's Topics:

   1. Re: review some plips and thoughts (Nathan Van Gheem)
   2. Re: review some plips and thoughts (Cris Ewing)


----------------------------------------------------------------------

Message: 1
Date: Tue, 4 Dec 2012 08:18:43 -0600
From: Nathan Van Gheem <vangheem at gmail.com>
To: Roch? Compaan <roche at upfrontsystems.co.za>
Cc: ui <ui at lists.plone.org>
Subject: Re: [Plone-UI] review some plips and thoughts
Message-ID:
	<CAL8hw9HyLyK9AUxJM9suFAiA-Q-GvUbDpkQPU+bSNwaofq=7cA at mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"

Everyone okay with meeting next week?


On Tue, Dec 4, 2012 at 2:34 AM, Roch? Compaan <roche at upfrontsystems.co.za>wrote:

> I'm already leaving for holiday on the 14th but would be available for 
> a UI meeting next week.
>
> --
> Roch? Compaan
> Upfront Systems                   http://www.upfrontsystems.co.za
>
>
> On Tue, Dec 4, 2012 at 6:22 AM, Nathan Van Gheem <vangheem at gmail.com>
> wrote:
> > I wasn't planning on a UI team meeting until the 18th. Is that too 
> > close
> to
> > Christmas? Tomorrow is too close although we do have good things to 
> > talk about with all the work Thijs has done.
> >
> >
> > On Mon, Dec 3, 2012 at 6:19 PM, Rob Porter <robzonenet at gmail.com> wrote:
> >>
> >> I will try this tomorrow.  Speaking of tomorrow, are we meeting?
> >>
> >> Sent from my mobile device
> >>
> >> On Dec 3, 2012, at 6:39 PM, Thijs Jonkman <t.jonkman at gmail.com> wrote:
> >>
> >> Hi All,
> >>
> >> Got an update on themes in https://dev.plone.org/ticket/13355.
> >>
> >> I turned the three flavours of HTML5 Boilerplate into Diazo themes 
> >> (several levels of difficulty). Try:
> >> https://github.com/TH-code/plonetheme.h5bp
> >>
> >> This led me to mocking about with bootstrap a bit more. Try out:
> >> https://github.com/TH-code/plonetheme.bootstrap
> >>
> >> Have a go at them and give me some feedback :-) THijs
> >>
> >>
> >> On Fri, Nov 30, 2012 at 10:01 PM, Dylan Jay <djay at pretaweb.com> wrote:
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> On 01/12/2012, at 3:08 AM, Nathan Van Gheem <vangheem at gmail.com>
> wrote:
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> On Fri, Nov 30, 2012 at 9:03 AM, Thijs Jonkman <t.jonkman at gmail.com>
> >>> wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>> Hi All,
> >>>>
> >>>> (Thanks Nathan)
> >>>>
> >>>> On Fri, Nov 30, 2012 at 3:02 PM, Nathan Van Gheem <vangheem at gmail.com
> >
> >>>> wrote:
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Hi all,
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Could everyone review these plips and implementations and give some
> >>>>> thoughts. Thijs has already done some great work and I'm not sure
> the best
> >>>>> route to go here and I'd hate to waste too much of his time.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> https://dev.plone.org/ticket/13355
> >>>>> https://dev.plone.org/ticket/13358
> >>>>>
> >>>>> What we're aiming for and thoughts:
> >>>>>
> >>>>> - plone ship with default diazo theme
> >>>>> - so people has a very basic way to get started using diazo(they
> won't
> >>>>> have to create their own theme if they want to make some tweaks to
> move
> >>>>> elements around)
> >>>>> - should the theme still work without diazo? I think so.
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> I think we don't need to have the old and new style of the same theme.
> >>>> Reasons:
> >>>> - Avoid confusion for users (I have a sunburst theme under Themes and
> >>>> Diazo themes, what gives?)
> >>>
> >>> The idea is it'd give people an easy starting point to modify the theme
> >>> via the diazo theme editor.
> >>>
> >>>>
> >>>> - Maintain two nearly identical css codebases that achieve the same
> >>>> through different routes (not DRY)
> >>>
> >>> Still keep all the css in the same spot--skins for now. Otherwise, we
> >>> don't get portal_css merging and everything.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> We really need to come up with a way of doing merging that works better
> >>> with diazo. It doesn't make sense for the CSS to be so decoupled from
> the
> >>> theme.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>>
> >>>> - Why have two ways to achieve the same goal?
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> I've created a sunburst and a classic one. I can see the classic theme
> >>>> being done old style and sunburst through diazo, showing both theming
> ways
> >>>> for people new to plone.
> >>>>
> >>>> Why do you think the theme should work without Diazo? To not have
> >>>> plone.app.theming be obligatorily installed?
> >>>
> >>> Yes. Think of all the people who have based their themes on sunburst
> and
> >>> now their themes will break unless they're forced into using diazo.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> +1. We have a lot of diazo themes based on sunburst. Backwards
> >>> compatibility is really important. Same applies to skins. We need to
> >>> deprecate before we remove.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>> - should we still use skin layers? I think so.
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> I don't really see a reason for that with a Diazo theme either. Maybe
> >>>> for jbot fun? But if you're going that route for customization, you
> could
> >>>> add a browser layer. Or apply it to all of plone...
> >>>
> >>> plone core shouldn't require the jbot package.
> >>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> Why should we use them?
> >>>
> >>> Because everyone's current themes depend on it.
> >>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>> - migration and upgrades
> >>>>> - what package should we put the theme in? Would it be confusing for
> >>>>> plonetheme.sunburst to have normal theme and diazo theme?
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> I would move the plonetheme packages to a 2.0 version with Diazo
> themes
> >>>> and keep the old themes in the 1.x versions.
> >>>
> >>> That's a possibility.
> >>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Ideas anyone?
> >>>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> I think Plip 13358 needs to be roled into plone asap, Plip 13355 can
> >>>> definitely use some input :-)
> >>>
> >>> Agreed.
> >>>
> >>> _______________________________________________
> >>>
> >>> UI mailing list
> >>> UI at lists.plone.org
> >>> https://lists.plone.org/mailman/listinfo/plone-ui
> >>
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> UI mailing list
> >> UI at lists.plone.org
> >> https://lists.plone.org/mailman/listinfo/plone-ui
> >>
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> UI mailing list
> >> UI at lists.plone.org
> >> https://lists.plone.org/mailman/listinfo/plone-ui
> >>
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > UI mailing list
> > UI at lists.plone.org
> > https://lists.plone.org/mailman/listinfo/plone-ui
> >
>
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------------------------------

Message: 2
Date: Tue, 4 Dec 2012 06:43:29 -0800
From: Cris Ewing <cris at crisewing.com>
To: Nathan Van Gheem <vangheem at gmail.com>
Cc: ui <ui at lists.plone.org>
Subject: Re: [Plone-UI] review some plips and thoughts
Message-ID: <08DEA8D3-C637-42BD-8200-ECF887F48307 at crisewing.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"

Works for me

Cris Ewing
************
Cris Ewing Developer, LLC
http://crisewing.com
cris at crisewing.com
@crisewing
206.724.2112


On Dec 4, 2012, at 6:18 AM, Nathan Van Gheem <vangheem at gmail.com> wrote:

> Everyone okay with meeting next week?
> 
> 
> On Tue, Dec 4, 2012 at 2:34 AM, Roch? Compaan <roche at upfrontsystems.co.za> wrote:
> I'm already leaving for holiday on the 14th but would be available for
> a UI meeting next week.
> 
> --
> Roch? Compaan
> Upfront Systems                   http://www.upfrontsystems.co.za
> 
> 
> On Tue, Dec 4, 2012 at 6:22 AM, Nathan Van Gheem <vangheem at gmail.com> wrote:
> > I wasn't planning on a UI team meeting until the 18th. Is that too close to
> > Christmas? Tomorrow is too close although we do have good things to talk
> > about with all the work Thijs has done.
> >
> >
> > On Mon, Dec 3, 2012 at 6:19 PM, Rob Porter <robzonenet at gmail.com> wrote:
> >>
> >> I will try this tomorrow.  Speaking of tomorrow, are we meeting?
> >>
> >> Sent from my mobile device
> >>
> >> On Dec 3, 2012, at 6:39 PM, Thijs Jonkman <t.jonkman at gmail.com> wrote:
> >>
> >> Hi All,
> >>
> >> Got an update on themes in https://dev.plone.org/ticket/13355.
> >>
> >> I turned the three flavours of HTML5 Boilerplate into Diazo themes
> >> (several levels of difficulty). Try:
> >> https://github.com/TH-code/plonetheme.h5bp
> >>
> >> This led me to mocking about with bootstrap a bit more. Try out:
> >> https://github.com/TH-code/plonetheme.bootstrap
> >>
> >> Have a go at them and give me some feedback :-)
> >> THijs
> >>
> >>
> >> On Fri, Nov 30, 2012 at 10:01 PM, Dylan Jay <djay at pretaweb.com> wrote:
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> On 01/12/2012, at 3:08 AM, Nathan Van Gheem <vangheem at gmail.com> wrote:
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> On Fri, Nov 30, 2012 at 9:03 AM, Thijs Jonkman <t.jonkman at gmail.com>
> >>> wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>> Hi All,
> >>>>
> >>>> (Thanks Nathan)
> >>>>
> >>>> On Fri, Nov 30, 2012 at 3:02 PM, Nathan Van Gheem <vangheem at gmail.com>
> >>>> wrote:
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Hi all,
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Could everyone review these plips and implementations and give some
> >>>>> thoughts. Thijs has already done some great work and I'm not sure the best
> >>>>> route to go here and I'd hate to waste too much of his time.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> https://dev.plone.org/ticket/13355
> >>>>> https://dev.plone.org/ticket/13358
> >>>>>
> >>>>> What we're aiming for and thoughts:
> >>>>>
> >>>>> - plone ship with default diazo theme
> >>>>> - so people has a very basic way to get started using diazo(they won't
> >>>>> have to create their own theme if they want to make some tweaks to move
> >>>>> elements around)
> >>>>> - should the theme still work without diazo? I think so.
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> I think we don't need to have the old and new style of the same theme.
> >>>> Reasons:
> >>>> - Avoid confusion for users (I have a sunburst theme under Themes and
> >>>> Diazo themes, what gives?)
> >>>
> >>> The idea is it'd give people an easy starting point to modify the theme
> >>> via the diazo theme editor.
> >>>
> >>>>
> >>>> - Maintain two nearly identical css codebases that achieve the same
> >>>> through different routes (not DRY)
> >>>
> >>> Still keep all the css in the same spot--skins for now. Otherwise, we
> >>> don't get portal_css merging and everything.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> We really need to come up with a way of doing merging that works better
> >>> with diazo. It doesn't make sense for the CSS to be so decoupled from the
> >>> theme.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>>
> >>>> - Why have two ways to achieve the same goal?
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> I've created a sunburst and a classic one. I can see the classic theme
> >>>> being done old style and sunburst through diazo, showing both theming ways
> >>>> for people new to plone.
> >>>>
> >>>> Why do you think the theme should work without Diazo? To not have
> >>>> plone.app.theming be obligatorily installed?
> >>>
> >>> Yes. Think of all the people who have based their themes on sunburst and
> >>> now their themes will break unless they're forced into using diazo.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> +1. We have a lot of diazo themes based on sunburst. Backwards
> >>> compatibility is really important. Same applies to skins. We need to
> >>> deprecate before we remove.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>> - should we still use skin layers? I think so.
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> I don't really see a reason for that with a Diazo theme either. Maybe
> >>>> for jbot fun? But if you're going that route for customization, you could
> >>>> add a browser layer. Or apply it to all of plone...
> >>>
> >>> plone core shouldn't require the jbot package.
> >>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> Why should we use them?
> >>>
> >>> Because everyone's current themes depend on it.
> >>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>> - migration and upgrades
> >>>>> - what package should we put the theme in? Would it be confusing for
> >>>>> plonetheme.sunburst to have normal theme and diazo theme?
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> I would move the plonetheme packages to a 2.0 version with Diazo themes
> >>>> and keep the old themes in the 1.x versions.
> >>>
> >>> That's a possibility.
> >>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Ideas anyone?
> >>>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> I think Plip 13358 needs to be roled into plone asap, Plip 13355 can
> >>>> definitely use some input :-)
> >>>
> >>> Agreed.
> >>>
> >>> _______________________________________________
> >>>
> >>> UI mailing list
> >>> UI at lists.plone.org
> >>> https://lists.plone.org/mailman/listinfo/plone-ui
> >>
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> UI mailing list
> >> UI at lists.plone.org
> >> https://lists.plone.org/mailman/listinfo/plone-ui
> >>
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> UI mailing list
> >> UI at lists.plone.org
> >> https://lists.plone.org/mailman/listinfo/plone-ui
> >>
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > UI mailing list
> > UI at lists.plone.org
> > https://lists.plone.org/mailman/listinfo/plone-ui
> >
> 
> _______________________________________________
> UI mailing list
> UI at lists.plone.org
> https://lists.plone.org/mailman/listinfo/plone-ui
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