[Setup] Cross platform Plone, Was: Re: Stop Windows comments NOW!

Sat Aug 18 22:42:04 UTC 2012

That sound you are all hearing is my mind boggling at what the hell is
going on in this forum.

As Jim would say:

Waaaaaaaa?

On 18 August 2012 19:11, Alex Clark <aclark at aclark.net> wrote:

> **
>
> Hi
>
>
> On 2012-08-18 16:45:56 +0000, Martin Aspeli said:
>
>
>
>
> On 18 August 2012 16:34, W. Anderson <wanderson at nac.net> wrote:
>
> It now appears, with e-mails to "Plone Setup" forum these two recent
> postings - one from
>
> someone in UK  - lucianw at live.co.uk - asking about Windows registry
> Cleaner software
>
> and second apparently from Russian -  b.loggerschoiceawardscom at gmail.comwith a
>
> reply offering such registry cleaner (assuredly malware),  that the forum
> has been hijacked
>
> by spam bots and idiots whose intentions veer completely to the opposite
> of any purpose or
>
> interest in Plone Content Management Systems (CMS) in any form.
>
>
> In hindsight the forum moderator should have instantly stopped any and all
> comments
>
> on "Best Windows version for Plone install" discussion, since that topic
> is extraneous
>
> to any help or support of Plone on the Microsoft Windows OS.
>
>
> This forum/list is not moderated. At least not yet. We are trying to catch
> and block the spammers, but these are all automatically generated spam, so
> it's not that easy to stop.
>
>
> We're on it. Please don't make the problem worse by over-reacting or
> meta-posting about the spam, thereby compounding the noise.
>
>
>
> The anti-Windows sentiment is not really appropriate on this list, either.
> Plone supports deployment and development on Linux, Mac OS X and Windows.
> We intend to keep it that way. Most developers and users, anecdotally, use
> OS X or Linux, but frankly there is no "slant" one way or another.
>
>
>
> +1 If there is any such perceived slant I think it's due to the inherent
> nature of the various platforms. Plone-the-project must provide robust,
> easy to use installers for "all major platforms". It just so happens that
> Windows is:
>
>
> - Not free
>
> - Harder to integrate
>
> - The most widely used OS in the world(1)
>
>
> Most unix installers/distributions need only to be supplied to be useful.
> The latest Windows installers seem to be causing a bit more confusion than
> we'd like. IIUC, there is some effort to standardize every installer around
> the Unified Installer, which I think must happen if we have any hope of
> unconfusing people in the future.
>
>
> To give you an example of the scale of the problem, let's start with
> terminology. There are certain terms used in Plone that I absolutely hate,
> because I feel they confuse end users. Terms like (not all of which I hate,
> but all of which I'm certain confuse people, and in no particular order):
>
>
> - Products
>
> - instance
>
> - zinstance
>
> - zopepy
>
> - Buildout
>
> - Eggs
>
> - GenericSetup
>
> - Archetypes
>
> - ZopeSkel
>
> - Templer
>
> - Diazo
>
> - ZEO
>
> - ArchGenXML
>
> - bootstrap
>
> - skins
>
> - portal_*
>
> - Zope
>
> - Zope2
>
> - Zope3
>
> - Zope Component Architecture
>
> - Zope Toolkit
>
> - External Method
>
> - Browser View
>
> - Viewlet
>
> - Portlet
>
> - repozo
>
> - recipes
>
> - bluebrints
>
> - transmogrifier
>
> - ZODB
>
> - Data.fs
>
> - component
>
> - interface
>
> - KSS
>
> - Acquisition
>
> - paster
>
> - CMF
>
>
> We need to throw away or hide all this old terminolog and start over IMHO
> (the terminology, not the actual technology which of course is much harder
> to get rid of. And I'm not suggesting that Plone is unique in its wealth of
> complex terminology used to describe the stack. Just that we've lost our
> ability to provide end users with simple terminology to get the job done.
> I.e. we the developers have become uncumbered with all of this technology,
> and all of these terms). Here's some simple terminology I am comfortable
> with:
>
>
> - Python: The programming language used to build Plone, and the name of an
> executable interpreter.
>
> - Plone: The name of a popular Python-based CMS, and the name of the
> program that runs the Plone CMS application (c.f. instance)
>
> - Add-ons: Python code and other resources that add functionality to your
> Plone website.
>
> - Themes: Add-ons that chanage the appearance of your Plone website.
>
> - Plone API: The programming interface I the programmer user to customize
> Plone's default behavior, and to build applications on top of Plone.
>
>
> And here's three more terms that are fair game:
>
>
> - HTML
>
> - CSS
>
> - JavaScript
>
>
> And while we're at it, let's add a few more fairly easy ones:
>
>
> - Website: Text and other resources available at a URL.
>
> - Web application: A computer program whose user interface is a website.
>
> - CMS: A type of web application designed to make it easy for non
> technical users to edit website content.
>
>
> Everything else falls into the category of "if you really want to know
> more, then…".  And everything from the long list should fit into one of
> the terms on the shorter list.
>
>
> And that's just terminology. We need to have a discussion about what to
> call things first before we can fix them. Again, all of this is IMHO
> obviously. I'm sure others feel differently. But I'm adamant that a
> discussion must occur.
>
>
> For (stupid, simple) example: Do we call add-ons "products" for the next
> five years? Who decides? What documentation and software needs to be
> updated? Just this simple, stupid issue could entail a massive effort to
> decide on and fix (I'm actually OK with calling them Products, but just
> like with anything else in Plone, we have people calling them both and
> that's confusing. At this point I'd really like to hear from someone,
> anyone besides me that they should be called one or the other for the next
> five years and why.)[2]
>
>
>
> Alex
>
>
>
>
> (1) No idea if this is actually still true, but I suspect it is.
>
>
> (2) It bears repeating, none of this is unique to Plone. Almost the exact
> same thing is happening with Python and their packaging story, with the
> proliferation of confusing information surrounding all of the technologies:
> distutils, setuptools, distribute, distutils2, packagings, eggs,
> distributions, and now the new "wheel" built-package format.
>
>
>
>
>
> Martin
>
>
>
> --
>
> Alex Clark · http://pythonpackages.com
>
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>
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