[Product-Developers] <pissed> Generating the Dexterity boilerplate for Plone 4.3</pissed>

ajung lists at zopyx.com
Mon May 27 10:30:34 UTC 2013


I have one thing to add. Some person tried to explain me (in a pointless way)
how OSS works...

Here is the situation: most of us wear more than one head...most of work as
integrator and as core developers (in some way).

Shouting out "fix this yourself" is not an answer.

With former releases the costs and amount of work for performing Plone
upgrade has been predictable. With Plone 4.2 and Plone 4.3 I ran into so
many weird problems. In fact a migration estimated to two days took four
extra unpaid days.  My subjective feeling is said migration between Plone
4.X versions became harder and more work than migration in Plone 3.x and
even between Plone 4.X

Here is the point: customers expect reasonable prices and we integrators
need a reliable framework under the hood. 

As integrator _and_ core developer: Yes, I could analyse and fix lots of
things. Who pays this?

Integrators that are not core developer: they are pissed because everything
is a moving target. Add-ons must be ported and adjust from version to
version; things became unpredictable and unreliable

Plone end-user maintaining and running Plone without special background are
even more pissed by missing documentation, improper documentation, broken
tools etc.

This situation - especially seen from the prospective of customer (including
large university
customers) - is seen with sceptism.

The situation is paranoid: we are running around and tell people how call
Plone is
(if it works) - but in real life we have the feeling that Plone became a
piece of scary and fragile
crap.

-aj




Jens W. klein-2 wrote
> Hi,
> 
> I can only agree here. I had to teach dexterity the last months a bit to 
> newbies - experienced programmers, but complete new to pyhton/plone.
> 
> The whole landscape of dexterity documentation is a mess. It is 
> distributed over the web, there are plenty outdated documents around, 
> you dont know whats recent and even recent docs are broken. The grok 
> soft dependecy is a mess. Grok doesnt help anymore to simplifiy thing, 
> it just confuses people.
> 
> Hint: Delete outdated docs as soon as possible, consolidate all 
> dexterity docs at one place and get rid of grok, it tries to simplify 
> thing but adds a new level of implicity and magic difficult to understand.
> 
> just my 0.02€
> 
> Jens
> 
> On 2013-05-25 07:14, ajung wrote:
>> Hi there,
>>
>> I am slightly annoyed with Dexterity under Plone 4.3.
>>
>> In the old days of Archetypes and Plone 4.x I could
>> easily generate policy packages and the content-type
>> boilerplate code easily and in a reliable way  using
>> Paster + Zopeskel - perfect world.
>>
>> Now with Plone 4.3 and Dexterity everything feels
>> like a big mess - from the integrators prospective.
>>
>> The official way for generating the boilerplate code
>> seems(?!) to be https://pypi.python.org/pypi/templer.plone.
>>
>> First: this package generates code with grok dependencies
>> that do not work on Plone 4.3 (I wrote an earlier email
>> about this problem) - can be easily fixed.
>>
>> Second: generating a new content-type using templer
>> generated code that seems to be incompatible with Plone 4.3
>> (e.g.  an import to plone.directives which seems to
>> have been refactored into plone.directives.dexterity ...
>> and so on).
>>
>> Now I tried using the same with Plone 4.2 and the generated
>> code is also not working on Plone 4.2 So what is this
>> Templer stuff about? Causing trouble and frustration?
>>
>> Now tried it the hard-core way and tried to look up the Dexterity
>> documentation and checked
>>
>> https://pypi.python.org/pypi/plone.app.dexterity#documentation
>>
>> All three links inside the Dexterity documentation section on PyPI
>> lead to abandoned pages....great...I am pissed.
>>
>>
>> Once again: having elementary functionality for integrators
>> not working is bad for Plone. Yes, I can fix this all myself
>> if I had time and interest but here is the chicken-egg problem:
>> we have various other options available nowadays building
>> CMS and web application without Plone. And as an integrator
>> I do have some basic expectations to the framework. Basic
>> things must just work.
>>
>>
>> Andreas
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> View this message in context:
>> http://plone.293351.n2.nabble.com/pissed-Generating-the-Dexterity-boilerplate-for-Plone-4-3-pissed-tp7565313.html
>> Sent from the Product Developers mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
>>
> 
> 
> -- 
> Klein & Partner KG, member of BlueDynamics Alliance
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Product-Developers mailing list

> Product-Developers at .plone

> https://lists.plone.org/mailman/listinfo/plone-product-developers





--
View this message in context: http://plone.293351.n2.nabble.com/pissed-Generating-the-Dexterity-boilerplate-for-Plone-4-3-pissed-tp7565313p7565400.html
Sent from the Product Developers mailing list archive at Nabble.com.


More information about the Product-Developers mailing list