[Product-Developers] ANN: plone-devstart (please help test)

Alex Clark aclark at aclark.net
Tue Mar 13 23:10:06 UTC 2012


On 3/13/12 4:01 PM, Martin Aspeli wrote:
> I think you need to look a bit more closely at what the script does
> before passing judgment. I feel like your comment below misses the point.


I understand what you are trying to do, and I'm not passing judgement, 
so please don't misunderstand why I'm taking the time to comment.

What I am saying is: let us think very carefully about who we are 
targeting with something like plone-devstart and make sure (i.e. via 
group consensus and/or FWT evaluation, as needed) we are taking the 
"right" steps for that target audience.


According to the documentation, the target audience is:

---
… those with a system-installed or custom compiled Python … no need to 
have a functioning easy_install or pip to be able to use it.
----

Based on those statements, I'm not sure if that means "Python 
programmers" in general or folks more, or less, skilled than that. So 
that's the first thing I'm trying to understand. I ran the script and 
committed the output to:

- https://github.com/aclark4life/plone-devstart-test

and may add some further comments there FWIW.


Alex




>
> On Tuesday, 13 March 2012, Alex Clark
> <aclark at aclark.net
> <mailto:aclark at aclark.net>> wrote:
>  > On 3/10/12 5:15 PM, Martin Aspeli wrote:
>  >>
>  >> Hi,
>  >>
>  >> Somewhat inspired by the goals of the ``plone.api`` initiative and based
>  >> on the experience of seeing many, many people struggle to get a "safe"
>  >> Plone development up and running due to problems with polluted system
>  >> Python interpreters, missing libraries and confusing buildouts, I have
>  >> created a script called ``plone-devstart.py``.
>  >
>  >
>  > +0
>  >
>  > In the interest of stop energy (kidding)… but seriously: can we not
> go in this direction, if at all possible? Or at least think out loud a
> bit more before first.
>  >
>  > My thoughts:
>  >
>  > We've spent years getting Plone situated in a "nice" place within the
> Python community. To address the concerns of the ``plone.api`` folks and
> anyone that has trouble installing or developing add-ons for Plone, I
> would strongly recommend that we adhere very closely to "Python best
> practices"[1].
>  >
>  > Now, I completely understand Martin's motivation here and may
> personally be interested in trying plone-devstart.py to see what he has
> come up with. But I don't think, at least my gut reaction tells me, that
> a project-specific script is not what we need or want more of here[2].
>  >
>  > Think about it this way: the Plone project has very ambitious goals
> with regard to CMS functionality, and a limited set of developers to
> accomplish those goals. We don't want those resources spent on Python
> module installation problems, if we can help it. Better to offload that
> problem to the worldwide community of Python folks IMHO for "free" support.
>  >
>  >
>  > Alex
>  >
>  >
>  > [1] Support: "pip install -r 4.2.x.txt Plone" ASAP. Failures with
> this process become "general Python failures" not "Plone specific
> failures". Don't have PIL? "pip install Pillow" and so on. Let
> requirements.txt equal versions.cfg in effect, and let's figure out how
> to build out a bunch of zcml slugs without buildout. (Actually, with
> Pillow, it's probably now "safe" to depend on it in the way we depend on
> Zope2. Installation problems have been practically eliminated for all
> major OSes. The only "gotcha" is C extensions, but Zope2 has those too.
> Oh and PIL's deps, but the Unified Installer includes those for its
> purposes and anyone that can type "pip install Plone" can probably type
> "{aptitude,brew,etc} install libjpeg-dev" and so on.)
>  >
>  > [2] One exception may be if "pip install plone-devstart" were supported.
>  >
>  >
>  >>
>  >> The idea is that you can use this to instantiate a new development
>  >> environment in a 'safe' way. It will perform some checks on your
>  >> environment to determine the likelihood of success. It then installs a
>  >> bunch of useful development tools, a basic deployment configuration, and
>  >> creates a simple (non-reusable) package where you can put your custom
>  >> Python code and templates.
>  >>
>  >> For now it lives here: https://github.com/plone/plone-devstart/
>  >>
>  >> It supports Plone 4.1, though I plan to add 4.2 support shortly.
>  >>
>  >> You can download the one file you need here:
>  >> https://github.com/plone/plone-devstart/raw/master/plone-devstart.py
>  >>
>  >> I've tested as much as I can, but if this is to work out for a broader
>  >> audience, we need lots of people to test. If you have a particularly
>  >> messed up environment, I'd like to hear about it. :)
>  >>
>  >> Martin
>  >>
>  >>
>  >> _______________________________________________
>  >> Product-Developers mailing list
>  >> Product-Developers at lists.plone.org
> <mailto:Product-Developers at lists.plone.org>
>  >> https://lists.plone.org/mailman/listinfo/plone-product-developers
>  >
>  >
>  > --
>  > Alex Clark · http://pythonpackages.com
>  >
>  > _______________________________________________
>  > Product-Developers mailing list
>  > Product-Developers at lists.plone.org
> <mailto:Product-Developers at lists.plone.org>
>  > https://lists.plone.org/mailman/listinfo/plone-product-developers
>  >
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Product-Developers mailing list
> Product-Developers at lists.plone.org
> https://lists.plone.org/mailman/listinfo/plone-product-developers


-- 
Alex Clark · http://pythonpackages.com



More information about the Product-Developers mailing list