[Product-Developers] ANN: plone-devstart (please help test)

Jean-Michel FRANCOIS toutpt at gmail.com
Sun Mar 11 12:34:45 UTC 2012

I like the idea of plone's bootrap.py that install plone

I have not understood what you want to cover about the system dependencies.
Do you install missing dependencies ? Warn the dev of missing stuff ?

Also using python to install python is quite disturbing (thinking of

I often show how I setup a computer to be Plone ready (dev purpose only).
 For me it means having good python (2.4 & 2.6) with all system
dependencies (libjpeg, zlib, libxml, libxml , *-dev) + a buildout for tools
(https://github.com/toutpt/mypythontools -> default.cfg, .gitignore, ...)

Next to that you are ready to use buildout provided by addons or do a new
buildout 5 seconds and installing a plone is like type bin/buildout -N and
having a plone in 10 seconds because you already have it in the user's
eggs-directory, so you can work on your addon, theme, ...

Regards / Cordialement,

Le 11 mars 2012 10:20, David Glick <davidglick at groundwire.org> a écrit :

>  On 3/11/12 12:46 AM, Martin Aspeli wrote:
> On 11 March 2012 06:58, Mikko Ohtamaa <mikko+plone at redinnovation.com>wrote:
>>>     Last night while talking to Clayton and Liz about the whole
>>> ZopeSkel/Paster/Templer/Crushinator situation it became clear that the
>>> story for new developers is a complete mess.
>>>      This is bad, and having a new shinny thing that "eases" Plone
>>> development just made the situation even worse -- as long as someone must
>>> use it and then <zopeskel create> & <paster addcontent>.
>>>     Time to kill most of the available options, focus on **just one**
>>> and have a compelling story to tell to newcomers.
>> +1 for cleaning up the old stuff before inventing new stuff
>>  A good step would be making buildout just work, as it is indented
>  Yay for stop energy. :-/
>  I want a solution that works now to a very specific problem: people
> expect to be able to use an OS-managed/system Python to develop with Plone.
> And when they try, their environment breaks in all kinds of hard-to-debug
> ways.
>  I don't want a framework or something with a million things that can go
> wrong. plone-devstart is a dirt simple script using nothing but the Python
> standard library. And, crucially, it scans the environment looking for
> known/common problems.
>  I'm more concerned about the overlap with the installers, though that's
> a slightly different discussion again.
>  The point is that *once you have a stable/clean environment*, you can
> have all kinds of good tools. But if you can't get those tools to install
> or run, you're screwed. Even if buildout should "just work" you still need
> to install it. And you still need to worry about whether you have the right
> Python version. And you may still be missing PIL C library dependencies, or
> have a poisonous libxml2 killing lxml dead in your global library, or be
> missing Python headers or a C compiler. None of those are within Buildout's
> scope, and they are causing real problems for real people *today*.
> Thanks for working on this, Martin. It sounds like a great tool and I'm
> looking forward to giving it a try.
> We do also really need to fix the ZopeSkel situation. Right now a ton of
> tutorials give instructions for it that just don't work with the new
> version, which is a huge huge barrier for newbies. But having ZopeSkel
> implementation and docs in sync is a different problem than getting a
> working development set up, so I don't understand the stop energy from
> people. plone-devstart and ZopeSkel are complementary tools.
> David
> *David Glick*
> Web Developer
> davidglick at groundwire.org
> 206.286.1235x32
>  The NPO Engagement Party 2012. <http://www.npoengagementparty.com> So
> much more fun than the wedding reception.
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