[Framework-Team] Re: DataGridField for z3c.form?

Martin Aspeli optilude+lists at gmail.com
Thu Sep 10 14:57:01 UTC 2009

Martin Aspeli wrote:
>> - z3c.form produces very awful HTML
> Does that apply to the general case, or only to the case of nested 
> structures like this?
> The markup of the widgets I've seen has generally been pretty good. I 
> think we need a much richer, mainly JavaScript-driven and probably less 
> generalised widget for the "grid" use case anyway.
>> - z3c.form produces very confusing user interfaces
> Again, I think that applies to
>> - z3c.form documentation is indeed incomplete (no mention of
>>    ObjectFactory)
> It's certainly better than formlibs. ;-)
>> - z3c.form you can do cool stuff with it, although I am not convinced
>>    it is much better than hand-coding the form
> One of the reasons we had a woefully incomplete Plone control panel and 
> relied on the ZMI for far too much up until Plone 3 was that no-one 
> likes or bothers with hand-coding forms for things like that. The same 
> goes for content add/edit menus and anything else that is largely schema 
> driven. There's definitely a place for hand-coded forms, but it's not a 
> panacea either.
>> And the reason I cc'ed the framework team: I strongly feel that until 
>> the generated markup and user interfaces from z3c.form are improved to 
>> meet Plone standards Plone itself should start using it.
> I think you're over-generalising. The output of a z3c.form form is not 
> any worse than what we have with formlib or Archetypes (in fact, it's 
> probably better, and it's certainly easier to standardise). There may be 
> reasons for and against z3c.form, and the complex nested forms stuff is 
> probably not quite mature, but it's not any less mature than it is in 
> anything else.

There is another important factor too: z3c.form is seeing active 
development and has a committed maintainer, who cares about 
compatibility with Plone. I'm sure he'd appreciate patches and 
constructive feedback, rather than negative generalisations.

I don't think anyone's yet built a good composite form solution. I 
suspect that z3c.form at least has the power to let you do so in a way 
that's going to end up being usable by mere mortals, even if it errs a 
little on the side of generalisation in providing hooks to those solving 
that rather complex use case.


Author of `Professional Plone Development`, a book for developers who
want to work with Plone. See http://martinaspeli.net/plone-book

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