[Framework-Team] Re: [Plone-developers] The new Plone 4.0, was Re: Plone 3.5

Steve McMahon steve at dcn.org
Tue May 5 21:44:07 UTC 2009

My only concern about calling Hanno's incremental change list 4.0 is
that we don't suffer from big-number expectation syndrome.

If we start thinking that 4.0 "has to be big enough" to justify the
numbering jump, and start expanding too much on the "yes" list, we
won't get this out in 2009. And, it won't serve the purpose of
delivering enough new stuff to keep folks excited while waiting for
the big UI items.

So, a couple of questions for us all:

1) If we call it Plone 4.0, can we restrict ourselves to a modest list
of improvements that will actually get coded this summer and tested
this fall?

2) If we call it Plone 4.0, can we resist ourselves to changes that
will not break existing theme products or well-constructed Plone 3 add

If we can agree to that and task Eric with enforcing it, I'm all for
calling "it" 4.0. In any case, Hanno's and collaborators have set us
on a great course.


On Tue, May 5, 2009 at 2:20 PM, Ross Patterson <me at rpatterson.net> wrote:
> Lennart Regebro <regebro at gmail.com>
> writes:
>> On Tue, May 5, 2009 at 22:05, Ross Patterson <me at rpatterson.net> wrote:
>>> Sorry if I'm resurrecting an already fairly resolved debate.  None of
>>> the concerns I raise here are enough to vote -1 one calling it
>>> 4.0.  But if enough people feel as I do here, maybe we should discuss
>>> a little further.  What about plone 3.9?
>> 3.0.x was very buggy, and I think that has been somewhat saved by the
>> upgrades to 3.1 and 3.2 being so painless. I think it would be, for
>> that reason, a big mistake to introduce bigger changes in 3.X unless
>> we can make sure the upgrade is quite painless and the changes are
>> *very* stable.
> Yeah, I guess trying to have a release line that can grow is trying to
> have it both ways.  I'm very concerned about the expectations we've been
> developing about Plone 4 and the impact that will have on perceptions
> when we say, "Yeah, that's plone 5 now" or worse yet the even less
> confidence inducing "Yeah, that's plone trunk now."  But I guess the
> right response to that issue is to be more disciplined in our messaging
> in the future and *not* talk about release numbers before the release
> process has had a chance to weigh in.  IOW, any perceptual/expectation
> problems we have from this may be our just desserts.  :)
> +1 to calling it 4.0.  +1 to constraining ourselves to not include
> additional disruptive changes in the newly established 4.0 line and thus
> to only include them in subsequent major versions.  +100 to not talking
> about version 5 until the 5 FWT has actually done enough of it's process
> to have some formal establishment of expectations.
> Then I'll just have to buck up and tell people that a better skinning
> story will *not* being Plone 4 afterall and that I can't tell them it
> will be in Plone 5 and that somehow they shouldn't be discouraged by
> that.  :(
> Ross
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Steve McMahon
Reid-McMahon, LLC
steve at reidmcmahon.com
steve at dcn.org

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