[Framework-Team] 3.0 shouldn't just be about the user facing UI
apm13 at columbia.edu
Mon Mar 13 18:37:58 UTC 2006
On Monday 13 March 2006 09:18, whit wrote:
> just to piggy back a bit on this:
> I think one consideration that needs to be made is how much you guys
> want to start pursuing new style development. By the time Plone 3
> ships, CMF 2.0 will have full customization of views(the technology is
> not far off as we stand now).
> My personal feeling(somewhat reinforced by what I saw at the symposium)
> is that our ui layer is on a crash course with it's self. At best, this
> offers an opportunity to rethink how we want to work with UI as
> developers, designers, integrators, etc before stumbling into a system
> shaped by the assumptions of the old one.
> to summarize some of my past opinions:
> 1. developers designing UI's for designer to do ui is bad.
> 2. designers waiting to learn new ways of doing UI until a "best
> practice" is established prevents them from weighing in on the
> 3. systems like mcdonc's z3meld and five views could go a long way to
> clearing up the plone ui mess, but only if they can gain adoption.
If we move to a meld like solution we may well end up having nobody who wants
to work on presentation logic. I certainly have no interest in using python
to manipulate an XML tree in order to do the equivalent of a tal:repeat. I
think if we are going to move to some brave new world of designer
friendliness it should probably to be via generation of semantic XML (with
zpts) with XSLT transforms to provide the end-user interface; this would
allow designers to use the available XSLT generation tools to do all sorts
of nifty things, while allowing the developers to be removed entirely from
presentation decisions. This would however seem to make it somewhat more
difficult to make rich AJAX-y client side applications with Plone, and limit
the audience of potential plone design customizers to those with some XSLT
expertise. I seriously doubt this is feasible in the near future, and
neither is moving to a meld like system. We are stuck with making an HTML
presentation using zpt (which has no peer for generating markup, IMHO), so
we ought to make the most of it.
Five views, for the moment, even with the TTW customization stuff, don't seem
to offer any help in this regard, except to the extent that they allow us to
cordon off certain bits of purely semantic markup as mostly uncustomizable
(which I think is quite valuable in and of itself). Having a way of doing
TTW view customizations is nice, but it doesn't leave us much better off
than we are now in terms of creating a compelling story for designers.
If someone wants to write a new CMS built from the ground up using meld or
XML/XSLT, that's great, but that's not Plone 3.0, IMO.
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