[Evangelism] ... Plone vs. Wordpress - Volunteers please step up to create professional WhitePapers from this

Ken Wasetis - Contextual Corp. ken.wasetis at contextualcorp.com
Thu Oct 25 16:35:19 UTC 2012


I'm on that plone-com list already, but what would help would be to know 
where the main 'jumping off point' is.  Is there a main landing 
page/portal that directs people to:
- Google Docs
- Mailing List
- Plone.com staging site (where we can see current state of the theme, 
content, etc.)

Also, where is the content being done?  We can't just have a complete 
wiki environment where everyone just types over each other's content, I 
think, but we also don't want to hold-up progress.

I've been on the mailing list, but to be honest, got lost long ago as to 
where to go to contribute, as things just went in 5 directions - at 
least to me.  As I tried to track the list updates during a period I was 
too busy to actually do the work, there were so many updates coming per 
day that I couldn't really keep up.

Please update those like me who might want to help, but aren't sure 
where to start.

For instance, for the CMSX vs Plone and CMSY vs. Plone type of 
comparisons, I think a shared Google Doc would be a good place to 
start.  Then, we can add/polish up some copy around those points to plug 
into presentations, whitepapers, etc.


On 10/25/12 11:27 AM, Armin Stroß-Radschinski wrote:
> Hi Ken,
> thanks for collecting this and sharing. I enjoyed your Sharepoint talk 
> as well!
> Beneath catching highlight headlines, we need more of this kind of 
> technical base information after we have Plone newcomers on the hook.
> Lets create professional Whitepapers
> ==================================
> How can we proceed to refine this topic into one whitepaper like 
> content for Plone.com called
> "Plone vs. WP – The Full Featured CMS Plone compared against 
> WordPress" a WhitePaper
> (How does this title sound for native speakers?)
> If someone is willing to step up to find the tenor of language we need 
> to put the finger into the wound without too much bashing? A 
> Whitepaper should cover arguments people need to internally promote 
> Plone in their organisation or to their customers after discovering 
> there is a safe alternate CMS!
> If you think you can rewrite existing stuff like below for target 
> groups, please join the plone.com mailing list 
> http://lists.plone.org/mailman/listinfo/plone-com and drop me a line 
> to join the trello board for task sharing!
> The same has to be done with the excellent Sharepoint feature comparison.
> Armin
> Am 25.10.2012 um 17:40 schrieb ctxlken:
>> I'd already volunteered to help with the symposium.  In whatever way you
>> need.  Was just waiting to be asked.  Nathan VG said the same, so start
>> reaching out, buddy!
>> To my surprise, at the Plone Conf in Arnhem, I had a lot of response to
>> the "Intranet Shoot-out:  Plone vs. Sharepoint" talk I gave.  I was
>> surprised, because a) Who wants to hear about a commercial tool, let
>> alone an M$ tool, let alone an Intranet tool, right?  Not very sexy.
>> and b) It's not a case study, it doesn't show-off cool Plone features or
>> any code, etc.  Still not sexy.  So, it was great to see so many
>> Plonistas interested in getting the industry knowledge of how Plone
>> stacks up to other tools.
>> I definitely think you could have an afternoon of just talks that
>> compare/contrast Plone to Drupal, Wordpress, Sharepoint.  If the PSM is
>> going to have a Higher Ed bent to it as the PSE did, perhaps there are
>> other tools (Moodle?) that are used in Higher Ed that your staff might
>> have enough familiarity with to provide additional talks, but I have to
>> imagine the 3 I list would be of interest and a good starting point.
>> Oh, and on Wordpress - one more thing - WP does still have fewer
>> barriers to entry.  Abundant managed hosting options, cheaper options
>> (although some entry hosting level options are on par between WP and
>> Plone, usually with WP for $25-30/mo you get 1 site, X page visits or
>> bandwidth limit, etc.  With Plone, you usually get X RAM X DB Disk
>> storage, etc. )  If you were to host multiple/many sites, then a Plone
>> hosting option of just getting a cloud server for X/month and managing
>> multiple sites on your site instance and maybe using multiple mount
>> points for the DB becomes attractive, but way more complex to setup on
>> your own than typical click-and-go Wordpress setups, I think. We're
>> getting there, but not there yet on the low-end hosting range /
>> 1-small-site end of the spectrum. And maybe that's fine, but it's
>> important to know.
>> -Ken
>> On 10/25/12 9:50 AM, T. Kim Nguyen [via Plone] wrote:
>>> Great info!
>>> Re: end users, one of the things we are planning to do at Plone
>>> Symposium Midwest is have a track (a set of talks, training, a demo
>>> area) for people who are very new to Plone -- even people who are just
>>> still considering whether to use Plone.  It would be good to have at
>>> least a portion of a talk on the strengths of Plone relative to other
>>> CMS's one might be considering.
>>> So... Ken ... you are hereby volunteered. :)
>>>    Kim
>>> On Thu, Oct 25, 2012 at 9:28 AM, Carol Ganz <[hidden email]
>>> </user/SendEmail.jtp?type=node&node=7560635&i=0>> wrote:
>>>    Ken,
>>>    Thanks for sharing, the info is definitely helpful.
>>>    Thanks,
>>>    Carol
>>>    On 10/25/12 10:07 AM, ctxlken wrote:
>>>> Hi Ed,
>>>> I attended a WordCamp in Chicago just a couple months ago. I
>>>    have lots
>>>> of notes regarding common plugins used, load-testing, caching tools
>>>> commonly used, etc., but in terms of the main Plone v WordPress
>>>> differences, I noticed these:
>>>> WP conferences have a lot more focus on the end user, on
>>>> marketing/commercial sites, and on SEO topics than Plone events.
>>>> WP developers/hosters spend a lot of time fighting security
>>>> vulnerabilities and their server IP being blacklisted (since it's
>>>> typical for a WP site to be on the same server as 100 other WP
>>>    sites) -
>>>> a LOT!  And it scares the hell out of the marketing/management
>>>    people at
>>>> these events to hear so much conversation about 'How do you guys
>>>    fight
>>>> this?' from one dev to the other.
>>>> As with many tools, some of the 'cool factor' features of WP
>>>    need to be
>>>> disabled, if you want to have a secure site, evidently, such as the
>>>> 'Plugin Editor', in particular.
>>>> WP still has limited workflow capabilities and there is no built-in
>>>> global dashboard of security settings, where you click on/off
>>>    checkboxes
>>>> to give fine-grained permissions.  And most add-ons don't register
>>>> specific permissions to be managed from some general security
>>>    settings
>>>> dashboard, though I did hear of some plugin that purports to handle
>>>> this, but again, if the other plugins don't even think that
>>>    you'll be
>>>> managing permissions so much, they tend to not define said
>>>    permissions
>>>> to do fine-grained things - they're usually very general
>>>    permissions, as
>>>> in 'Admin' who gets to do everything, 'Viewer', and 'Editor' -
>>>    some user
>>>> in between who can maybe edit a post, but not remove them, etc.
>>>> I did see a talk on using a script to set fine-grained permissions,
>>>> since there is no good UI for doing so, but again, it's still
>>>    dependent
>>>> on the plugins defining fine-grained permissions, so that you
>>>    can set
>>>> permissions at a more granular level, and many plugins don't do
>>>    that.
>>>> Many of the top, most useful WP plugins are commercial. Many
>>>    people use
>>>> something called 'Jetpack'.  But I got the impression that to
>>>    use some
>>>> of its better features, you needed to have your WP site hosted
>>>    on one of
>>>> their preferred hosting vendors. Don't take my word for that,
>>>    though.
>>>> Many WP plugins provide really neat features, but have really poor
>>>> performing queries that can drag your site down (e.g., 'Smart
>>>    Tags' that
>>>> makes a matrix of keywords-to-tags or something and performs some
>>>> horrible multi-table-join queries in doing so.)  Users tend to
>>>    just keep
>>>> adding more and more plugins to try things out and never remove
>>>    them,
>>>> slowing down their site (with the mere existence of those plugins in
>>>> place.)  This is true with Plone too, but not to the same
>>>    extent, since
>>>> with WP, installing a new plugin is a simple point-and-click - no
>>>> restart of any services, usually.
>>>> Hopefully, some of this helps.  Thanks for "representin'" Plone!
>>>    It's
>>>> good for us to go to these  types of events to see how we stack up.
>>>> Thanks,
>>>> Ken
>>>> On 10/25/12 8:26 AM, Ed Manlove-2 [via Plone] wrote:
>>>>> I'm attending a local WordCamp [1] in a couple of days -
>>>    proudly wearing
>>>>> my Plone T-Shirt - and wanted to brush up on my Plone vs. WordPress
>>>>> talking points.  All of my Plone work has either been on my own
>>>    project
>>>>> or within Plone core (RTL, UI testing, i18n, etc) so I've never
>>>    really
>>>>> looked outwards too closely. I going to do some searching
>>>    around but
>>>>> wanted to see if anyone, in particular our Plone development
>>>    shops, have
>>>>> any notes when they talk/work with customers on showing the
>>>    value of
>>>>> Plone as compared to Wordpress. Thanks.
>>>>> Ed
>>>>> [1] http://2012.providence.wordcamp.org/
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> View this message in context:
>>> http://plone.293351.n2.nabble.com/Looking-for-talking-points-comparing-Plone-vs-Wordpress-tp7560624p7560633.html
>>> -- 
>>> Plone Symposium Midwest will be hosted at UW Oshkosh June 2-9, 2013!
>>> For UW Oshkosh Plone help and site requests, please email [hidden
>>> email] </user/SendEmail.jtp?type=node&node=7560635&i=4> or visit
>>> http://uwosh.edu/ploneprojects/help
>>> UW Oshkosh Intranet Project
>>> http://plonedev.uwosh.edu/intranettaskforce
>>> http://uwosh.edu/plone
>>> Co-Chair, PloneEdu initiative for K-12 & higher education
>>> http://ploneedu.org
>>> Twitter: @tkimnguyen
>> -- 
>> Ken Wasetis
>> President & CMS Solution Architect
>> Contextual Corp.
>> office: 847-356-3027
>> ken.wasetis at contextualcorp.com
> -- 
> Armin Carl Stroß-Radschinski, Dipl. Designer
> acsr industrialdesign, Landgrafenstraße 32, 53842 Troisdorf, Germany
> Telefon +49 (0) 22 41 / 94 69 94, FAX +49 (0) 22 41 / 94 69 96
> eMail a.stross-radschinski at acsr.de - http://www.acsr.de
> UST. ID Nr: DE154092803 (EU VAT ID)

Ken Wasetis

President & CMS Solution Architect
Contextual Corp.
office: 847-356-3027
ken.wasetis at contextualcorp.com

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