[Evangelism] Looking for talking points comparing Plone vs. Wordpress

ctxlken ken.wasetis at contextualcorp.com
Thu Oct 25 15:40:57 UTC 2012


I'd already volunteered to help with the symposium.  In whatever way you 
need.  Was just waiting to be asked.  Nathan VG said the same, so start 
reaching out, buddy!

To my surprise, at the Plone Conf in Arnhem, I had a lot of response to 
the "Intranet Shoot-out:  Plone vs. Sharepoint" talk I gave.  I was 
surprised, because a) Who wants to hear about a commercial tool, let 
alone an M$ tool, let alone an Intranet tool, right?  Not very sexy.  
and b) It's not a case study, it doesn't show-off cool Plone features or 
any code, etc.  Still not sexy.  So, it was great to see so many 
Plonistas interested in getting the industry knowledge of how Plone 
stacks up to other tools.

I definitely think you could have an afternoon of just talks that 
compare/contrast Plone to Drupal, Wordpress, Sharepoint.  If the PSM is 
going to have a Higher Ed bent to it as the PSE did, perhaps there are 
other tools (Moodle?) that are used in Higher Ed that your staff might 
have enough familiarity with to provide additional talks, but I have to 
imagine the 3 I list would be of interest and a good starting point.


Oh, and on Wordpress - one more thing - WP does still have fewer 
barriers to entry.  Abundant managed hosting options, cheaper options 
(although some entry hosting level options are on par between WP and 
Plone, usually with WP for $25-30/mo you get 1 site, X page visits or 
bandwidth limit, etc.  With Plone, you usually get X RAM X DB Disk 
storage, etc. )  If you were to host multiple/many sites, then a Plone 
hosting option of just getting a cloud server for X/month and managing 
multiple sites on your site instance and maybe using multiple mount 
points for the DB becomes attractive, but way more complex to setup on 
your own than typical click-and-go Wordpress setups, I think.  We're 
getting there, but not there yet on the low-end hosting range / 
1-small-site end of the spectrum. And maybe that's fine, but it's 
important to know.

-Ken


On 10/25/12 9:50 AM, T. Kim Nguyen [via Plone] wrote:
> Great info!
>
> Re: end users, one of the things we are planning to do at Plone 
> Symposium Midwest is have a track (a set of talks, training, a demo 
> area) for people who are very new to Plone -- even people who are just 
> still considering whether to use Plone.  It would be good to have at 
> least a portion of a talk on the strengths of Plone relative to other 
> CMS's one might be considering.
>
> So... Ken ... you are hereby volunteered. :)
>
>     Kim
>
> On Thu, Oct 25, 2012 at 9:28 AM, Carol Ganz <[hidden email] 
> </user/SendEmail.jtp?type=node&node=7560635&i=0>> wrote:
>
>     Ken,
>
>     Thanks for sharing, the info is definitely helpful.
>
>     Thanks,
>     Carol
>
>
>
>     On 10/25/12 10:07 AM, ctxlken wrote:
>     > Hi Ed,
>     >
>     > I attended a WordCamp in Chicago just a couple months ago.  I
>     have lots
>     > of notes regarding common plugins used, load-testing, caching tools
>     > commonly used, etc., but in terms of the main Plone v WordPress
>     > differences, I noticed these:
>     >
>     > WP conferences have a lot more focus on the end user, on
>     > marketing/commercial sites, and on SEO topics than Plone events.
>     >
>     > WP developers/hosters spend a lot of time fighting security
>     > vulnerabilities and their server IP being blacklisted (since it's
>     > typical for a WP site to be on the same server as 100 other WP
>     sites) -
>     > a LOT!  And it scares the hell out of the marketing/management
>     people at
>     > these events to hear so much conversation about 'How do you guys
>     fight
>     > this?' from one dev to the other.
>     >
>     > As with many tools, some of the 'cool factor' features of WP
>     need to be
>     > disabled, if you want to have a secure site, evidently, such as the
>     > 'Plugin Editor', in particular.
>     >
>     > WP still has limited workflow capabilities and there is no built-in
>     > global dashboard of security settings, where you click on/off
>     checkboxes
>     > to give fine-grained permissions.  And most add-ons don't register
>     > specific permissions to be managed from some general security
>     settings
>     > dashboard, though I did hear of some plugin that purports to handle
>     > this, but again, if the other plugins don't even think that
>     you'll be
>     > managing permissions so much, they tend to not define said
>     permissions
>     > to do fine-grained things - they're usually very general
>     permissions, as
>     > in 'Admin' who gets to do everything, 'Viewer', and 'Editor' -
>     some user
>     > in between who can maybe edit a post, but not remove them, etc.
>     >
>     > I did see a talk on using a script to set fine-grained permissions,
>     > since there is no good UI for doing so, but again, it's still
>     dependent
>     > on the plugins defining fine-grained permissions, so that you
>     can set
>     > permissions at a more granular level, and many plugins don't do
>     that.
>     >
>     > Many of the top, most useful WP plugins are commercial.  Many
>     people use
>     > something called 'Jetpack'.  But I got the impression that to
>     use some
>     > of its better features, you needed to have your WP site hosted
>     on one of
>     > their preferred hosting vendors.  Don't take my word for that,
>     though.
>     >
>     > Many WP plugins provide really neat features, but have really poor
>     > performing queries that can drag your site down (e.g., 'Smart
>     Tags' that
>     > makes a matrix of keywords-to-tags or something and performs some
>     > horrible multi-table-join queries in doing so.)  Users tend to
>     just keep
>     > adding more and more plugins to try things out and never remove
>     them,
>     > slowing down their site (with the mere existence of those plugins in
>     > place.)  This is true with Plone too, but not to the same
>     extent, since
>     > with WP, installing a new plugin is a simple point-and-click - no
>     > restart of any services, usually.
>     >
>     > Hopefully, some of this helps.  Thanks for "representin'" Plone!
>     It's
>     > good for us to go to these  types of events to see how we stack up.
>     >
>     > Thanks,
>     > Ken
>     >
>     >
>     >
>     > On 10/25/12 8:26 AM, Ed Manlove-2 [via Plone] wrote:
>     >> I'm attending a local WordCamp [1] in a couple of days -
>     proudly wearing
>     >> my Plone T-Shirt - and wanted to brush up on my Plone vs. WordPress
>     >> talking points.  All of my Plone work has either been on my own
>     project
>     >> or within Plone core (RTL, UI testing, i18n, etc) so I've never
>     really
>     >> looked outwards too closely. I going to do some searching
>     around but
>     >> wanted to see if anyone, in particular our Plone development
>     shops, have
>     >> any notes when they talk/work with customers on showing the
>     value of
>     >> Plone as compared to Wordpress.  Thanks.
>     >>
>     >> Ed
>     >>
>     >> [1] http://2012.providence.wordcamp.org/
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-- 
Ken Wasetis

President & CMS Solution Architect
Contextual Corp.
office: 847-356-3027
ken.wasetis at contextualcorp.com





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