[Evangelism] Water and Stone Open Source CMS report

Dylan Jay djay at pretaweb.com
Wed Nov 30 04:24:42 UTC 2011

One of the stats we use in presentation promoting plone is from w3techs.


The market position shows that Plone is more popular than both  
wordpress and joomla for high traffic sites, and almost as popular as  

The methodology this use is outlined on http://w3techs.com/technologies/topsite/content_management
Note there are some pretty expensive and largely unpopular systems in  
that list so overall Plone is bucking the trend.

Dylan Jay
Technical Solutions Manager
PretaWeb: Multisite Performance Support
P: +612 80819071 | M: +61421477460 | twitter.com/djay75 | linkedin.com/ 

On 30/11/2011, at 12:07 PM, Ken Wasetis [Contextual Corp.] wrote:

> Yet another 'popularity contest' report (on the heals of the  
> PacktPub open source awards ( http://www.packtpub.com/open-source-awards-home 
>  ), which is merely a vote for your favorite CMS, not any evaluation  
> of which CMS tools do XYZ better than the others out there.
> Unfortunately, to some degree we do have to fight the popularity  
> wars too, but I don't see Plone ever being a popular as the point- 
> and-click-$5/mo-and-here-is-your-blog Wordpress generators out there.
> I think that for the plone.com site and when marketing Plone in  
> general, we have to be sure to point out that while you certainly  
> can use it for the 5-10 page brochure site, it's much more powerful  
> than that - that numerous other CMS tools can't compare in terms of  
> security, scalability, fine-grained permission management, workflow,  
> check-in/out support, audit trail, etc., etc.
> To help fight this particular PR battle (with the producers of this  
> report, which I believe I've seen in previous years), I suggest that  
> we get in contact with its author and work to get included in the  
> process for their next report to help them get a large enough sample  
> size and help fight the reports built-in bias.  The author  
> (information on last page of report) has published PHP-based CMS  
> books on WP, Joomla, and the like.
> Visiting Water and Stone's website, it appears all they do is churn  
> out Joomla, WordPress, and Drupal sites, so there is other concern  
> for bias.
> http://www.waterandstone.com/portfolio
> As mentioned early on and throughout the report, there is some self- 
> admitted concern over their data due to the lack of marketing of the  
> survey within some project communities.  Is that really the way to  
> get a well-balanced set of data?  To solicit the specific CMS  
> communities to pine for their favorite tool?  No, it isn't, but as  
> long as their are dolts out there who follow popularity reports when  
> making software selections, we need to get into the game and submit  
> surveys from our own community as well.
> We could also ask the author to 'explain more fully' some of the  
> metrics represented in the report - some which seem conflicting on  
> the surface, such as:  If there is such a low awareness of Plone by  
> respondents (one graphic), then how is it that so many of them are  
> stating they are abandoning Plone (another graphic)?  And if so few  
> have any awareness of Plone, how is it there are so many who have  
> evaluated it, but decided to use something else?
> In the section toward the end where Plone and Joomla are mentioned  
> as tools for 'concern', the author admits that a few things don't  
> quite add up.  That while the brand reputation metric that Plone  
> supposedly does so poorly in is so low, it doesn't explain how it is  
> that Plone is in the top 4 tools for # downloads or in the top half  
> for installs, and other metrics they measured.
> Perhaps if they attempted to have survey respondents who were  
> outside of their own client base who seem to mostly use WP/Drupal/ 
> Joomla, they'd see more accurate results.  Then again, I'm not  
> convinced this report attempts to get accurate results.  But at  
> least it's something for the web manager dipping their toes into the  
> open source CMS market where there are only so many good evaluation  
> reports freely available, like this one.
> Cheers all,
> Ken
> On 11/29/11 11:45 AM, Carsten Senger wrote:
>> Hash: SHA1
>> Hi Folks,
>> Water and Stone published a report about the Open Source CMS market
>> that features Plone. In short Plone performs well, regarding some
>> criteria very well, beside others Downloads, Developers, running
>> installations, # of sites in the search engine top 5/10 for certain
>> common keywords and social networks activity.
>> But they also list Plone in the "Cause of Concern" section because  
>> of:
>> * Brand strength (search engine visibility, site popularity,  
>> mindshare,
>> reputation).
>> * evaluation->usage conversion rate
>> * Abandonment rate - number of users that do not use Plone any
>> longer
>> Mindshare (who knows Plone), conversion rate and abandonment numbers
>> where taken from their own users survey with 2500 participants. The
>> rest are various metrics from search engines and external sites.
>> But see yourself, the report is available here:
>> http://www.waterandstone.com/book/2011-open-source-cms-market-share-report
>> Cheers,
>> ..Carsten
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>> Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org/
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