[Evangelism] Re: promoting WPD

Alexander Limi limi at plone.org
Thu Mar 12 08:37:52 UTC 2009

On Wed, 11 Mar 2009 18:06:57 -0700, Chris Calloway  
<cbc at unc.edu> wrote:

> But I can *categorize* some of the main problems on this list, starting  
> with the aforementioned case and some others like it.

Thanks for the email, Chris! We're hearing you loud and clear, let me make  
that absolutely clear.

I'll try to keep it short instead of addressing every single point in your  

- The problem of bad consulting companies is a complex one, and we are  
acutely aware of it. We are doing something about it, but since it's a  
sensitive issue, we have to keep it somewhat confidential. Posting "avoid  
company X, Y and Z" on the Plone front page is not how we operate. ;)

- I agree 110% that Plone is too big, too complex, and with too many ways  
to do things. That's why the main goal of Plone 4 is approachability,  
simplification, and getting rid of code. That's why Plone 4 is "done when  
it's done", and Plone 3 development continues in parallel, so we can get  
it right. That's why instead of documenting every insane nook and cranny,  
we're getting rid of most of them and simplifying everything.

- I agree, you shouldn't have to hire a company/consultant to do any of  
the following:

   - Create new types
   - Create a new theme
   - Do sophisticated layout
   - Deal with rich media content

We hear you loud and clear, and Plone 4 *is* a revolution. It's not  
evolving what's currently there. It's getting rid of as much of the  
insanity as possible, and optimize for the things people want to do during  
day 1, week 1 and month 1 of their Plone experience.

On the upside, I do think people have become better at saying "use Django"  
or even "use Drupal/Joomla" when the use case doesn't fit what Plone does  
well out-of-the-box. The community is much more mature these days, and  
really doesn't want people to use Plone come hell or high water. It's a  
natural evolution of any open source project — in the beginning, it wants  
to be all things to all people. Plone now knows exactly what it wants, but  
that means we have to shift the focus a bit, and get rid of some baggage  
and simplify.

Finally, let me commend you all in TriZPUG for your excellent work in  
everything related to Plone. You all do amazing work, and don't get nearly  
enough recognition for what you do.

PS: Shoot me an email if you want to do a phone call, I'm happy to speak  
about the more sensitive details on the phone, but I think it's  
inappropriate to do so here on the list. :)

Alexander Limi · http://limi.net

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