[Plone-conference] Openspace: growing plone | as a brand
cbc at unc.edu
Fri Oct 24 17:11:39 UTC 2014
On 10/23/2014 10:26 PM, Jean Jordaan wrote:
> I think all long-time Plone collaborators value the community as one of the
> really good things about it. But it's not about being visionary or sheer fun.
> It's also about being a humane, welcoming place without a lot of bullying.
> People aren't just slinging code, they're building a commons that allows
> them to make a living in a good way: that includes meeting for sprints all
> over the world, working together because of mutual respect and shared values,
> learning from different cultures, contributing at their level of comfort or
++1. There are so many good things about Plone. This is just one. But
it's one that makes me care more about Plone.
Not in response to Jean, who I seem to agree with, but in general I knew
I would not be able to dance enough to keep my last post from being
somewhat seen as consultant bashing. It was part of my hesitation. And
it's evidence of the entrenchment of a culture in that if you bring up
the elephant in the room, you are offending it. I'm not against
consultants. I'm against consultantware and the thinking that it's ok
and should be embraced. Consultantware is the root of the idea that,
"Plone is not the perfect choice for someone about to build a new site
because it requires a programmer or consultant. That's what we're
talking about when we say consultantware. And I'm certainly going to be
taking to Dylan in Bristol to see how he does it without programming or
consulting. I also have seen a lot of improvements in Plone that are
true to the original Plone vision of pushing things up into Plone setup
where non-programmers can deal with them and that give me hope that
consultants get it like TTW content type editors, theme rule editors,
and form editors.
Also, Medusa is not a problem. The reason it has been in maintenance
since before Plone is that it is bulletproof. It only needs replacing it
you are sliding in something dependent on WSGI in order to solve
problems above the Medusa layer. Medusa is just a web server. CMS
problems start more at the OFS layer and up. However, "show me the
code," is a perfectly reasonable response to this thread and criticisms
of consultantware. I think what has been talked about isn't so much
piecemeal replacement from the bottom up, but a factoring such that
there is a layer of separation between Plone and Zope that could be
otherwise filled. But maybe that is the wrong approach and starting at
the bottom is the right thing. Maybe the Zope to Plone layer is too far
up the stack and interdependent to realistically refactor. It would then
be a informative experiment to try replacement from the very bottom.
There was once a Plone minor version that replaced Medusa with Twisted's
server and that was soon backed out.
Chris Calloway, Applications Analyst
UNC Renaissance Computing Institute
100 Europa Drive, Suite 540, Chapel Hill, NC 27517
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