[Plone-com] We need a new modern theme for plone.com.

Julian Coyne julian.coyne at unified.com.au
Wed Sep 5 06:52:19 UTC 2012


Awesome, I'll go check out those links this evening.

Looking forward to getting this effort properly underway.

+100 to Matt for the kick up the pants to everybody!

Cheers

On 5/09/2012 2:47 PM, Wyn Williams wrote:
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> Hello Julian
> I think we're in violent agreement!
> Indeed :) though my point was the theme does not need to wait for the
> content to be finished.
>
> Did you see the trello mail and link yet ?
> I think the main organization and decisions will take place over the
> next few days, certainly this week I hope (or butts will be prodded
> hint hint) and tasks and ideas can go there.
>
> By then we will have a central repo for documents, and TV1, Armina adn
> André will have had a chance to chip in.
>
> Documents can be reviewed and the peeps who where working on this
> project before can give some of there thoughts.
>
> Still, not doing badly for less then 24 hours since Matt kicked it off :D
> +1 separate content and theme threads,since they go to this list
> everybody stays in the loop anyway.
>
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> On 09/05/2012 09:40 AM, Julian Coyne wrote:
>> Hi Wyn,
>>
>> I think we're in violent agreement! Content first, design second.
>>
>> What I am talking about is responding to the OP in the thread "we
>> need a new modern theme for plone.com", and helping to fast track
>> that effort and get an excellent outcome.
>>
>> I'd better review the balance of the emails so I know what I'm
>> talking about in terms organisation so far, and then follow up with
>> the right people (Andre et al) to collaborate further.
>>
>> I'm interested in any further thoughts on the theme side of the
>> equation.
>>
>> Also, should we perhaps start another thread do discuss the content
>> side of things? I don't have a heap to contribute in that
>> department.
>>
>> Cheers
>>
>> On 5/09/2012 2:07 PM, Wyn Williams wrote: Hey Julian
>>
>> I think we are talking at cross purposes here. So far stage two
>> would be the tidyup / improving content and the site etc, stage one
>> being IA and availability with tight content.
>>
>> - From what you have said about the theme it is not a theme but a
>> theme framework.
>>
>> plone.com needs a theme, you have the base / framework (groovy)
>> TV1 can take on the themeing / visual design.
>>
>> Sites should always be content driven, we already know what the
>> content is about and the targeted groups - you would of written a
>> brief already for plone.unified (unless it was more ad-hoc) these
>> can be supplied to TV1 (they are not handling content just visual)
>>
>> There is no holding up of the content this way, I on a very
>> regular basis arrange content editors for portals with only a
>> (deliberately so) bare bones look.
>>
>> I am not suggesting (and bare in mind these are only suggestions,
>> it is André's lead on this) we do not use your work only that
>> unless you have a very good visual theme on a responsive design
>> that is utterly pro looking (you don't) it needs to be passed on to
>> a company who can spend time on the visual side / layout.
>>
>> Hopefully you could find time to collaborate with TV1 and André but
>> it should not be left as it is.
>>
>>>>> I think the overall design should be driven by content,
>>>>> requirements and a clear direction rather than vice-versa.
>> +1 as I mentioned we know what the content should be, requirements
>> have already been listed and there is a clear direction already
>> (read through the mails from Matt especially) and given the time
>> constraints these should be developed side by side (visual/content)
>> this does not mean on the same site but does mean at the same
>> time.
>>
>> Quite frankly it does not matter what the site looks like when
>> adding content as long as the general sections and layout has been
>> decided.
>>
>>
>> Wyn
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On 09/05/2012 08:33 AM, Julian Coyne wrote:
>>>>> Hi Wyn,
>>>>>
>>>>> Thanks for your feedback.
>>>>>
>>>>> I won't have read through all the email until I get some
>>>>> time tonight, so I only have a patchy understanding of "stage
>>>>> two", TV1 etc.
>>>>>
>>>>> But at a high level my thoughts are almost exactly the
>>>>> opposite of what you've outlined.
>>>>>
>>>>> Basically with plonetheme.unified, all of the hard work has
>>>>> been done and it can deliver value to the project *now*
>>>>> (rather than overspeccing and overcooking everything as we've
>>>>> done in the past... only to lose momentum & focus).
>>>>>
>>>>> This would serve as the basis for the plonetheme design, and
>>>>> we could get TV1 to add "flashy things" later (i.e. a plone
>>>>> visual design layer), but using a solid technical foundation,
>>>>> and once we have the content defined which IMO should drive
>>>>> customisation of the design. It also won't holdup creation of
>>>>> content.
>>>>>
>>>>> I think the overall design should be driven by content,
>>>>> requirements and a clear direction rather than vice-versa.
>>>>>
>>>>> The visual design of plonetheme.unified is good insofar as
>>>>> its "not another bootstrap site", but it strives to better
>>>>> reflect the identity of Plone. But its by no means meant to
>>>>> supplant a formal design process (there is no brief yet!),
>>>>> and from the sounds of it TV1 could take the brief,
>>>>> requirements and content etc... and build something great for
>>>>> plone.com.
>>>>>
>>>>> As it stands, plonetheme.unified has all the the
>>>>> underpinnings for a modern, responsive grid based layout
>>>>> (with sane RTL semantics even) and cleans up quite a bit of
>>>>> legacy accumulated cruft thats gathered over the years. So
>>>>> the formal design process could focus squarely design, rather
>>>>> than UI and library integration into plone.
>>>>>
>>>>> I'm not fussed either way - my main focus is to see an
>>>>> excellent outcome for plone.com, as it deserves a good online
>>>>> presence at last!
>>>>>
>>>>> Also I forgot to say that I'm able to contribute some solid
>>>>> blocks of time over the next few weekends if anyone is
>>>>> interested in progressing this.
>>>>>
>>>>> Cheers
>>>>>
>>>>> -- Julian Coyne Unified Systems T:  1300 UNIFIED [1300 864
>>>>> 343] M: 0438 658 466 [+61 438 658 466] E:
>>>>> julian.coyne at unified.com.au W: www.unified.com.au
>>>>>
>>>>> On 5/09/2012 1:11 PM, Wyn Williams wrote: Hello Julian Just
>>>>> my 2c (etc) but from the sounds of it that would be more
>>>>> suitable for stage two and further work (toolbar / Diazio
>>>>> etc) I think what was mentioned / the idea is is to have a
>>>>> kick ass responsive layout / graphical theme made by TV1 / a
>>>>> pro designer were as your theme sounds more technically
>>>>> concentrated.
>>>>>
>>>>> Maybe you could share and collaborate with André ? since the
>>>>> theme is going to be made by a dedicated designer / as a
>>>>> client project they will need specifications / requirements /
>>>>> use cases / targeted groups etc all of which you would of all
>>>>> ready done / prepared when starting on the theme so would be
>>>>> good to get to them and save time from the limited time
>>>>> resource available.
>>>>>
>>>>> Your technical side of things / theme could then be used for
>>>>> a more "flashy" in a technical sense theme with there layout
>>>>> and graphics in stage two.
>>>>>
>>>>> Thoughts ?
>>>>>
>>>>> Wyn
>>>>>
>>>>> PS I am just making suggestions, looking to André / main
>>>>> peeps on this to decide
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On 09/05/2012 07:52 AM, Julian Coyne wrote:
>>>>>>>> Hi All,
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Wow - that's an explosion of pent-up plone energy...
>>>>>>>> awesome to see!
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I haven't reviewed everything as yet, but I thought
>>>>>>>> I'd better get my thoughts out there (apologies if it
>>>>>>>> is in conflict with any subsequent discussion to what
>>>>>>>> I've read).
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> We have a theme called "plonetheme.unified" that
>>>>>>>> cleanly integrates bootstrap with Plone... in a neat
>>>>>>>> and unified way [TM] :-)
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> What that translates to is 'not another generic
>>>>>>>> bootstrap theme', but rather one that respects Plone's
>>>>>>>> visual identity, contains compatible compiled CSS for
>>>>>>>> legacy plone markup (context/standalone anyone?), and
>>>>>>>> overrides and a form layer for z3c.form and several
>>>>>>>> other technologies to bring some unification,
>>>>>>>> simplification and minimalism to the UI story.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> We have been working on it and refining it since
>>>>>>>> bootstrap 1.x, through 2.0 (looking at 2.1 presently).
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I was planning on throwing this into the ring as part
>>>>>>>> of the new Plone UI discussions (in fact I wanted to
>>>>>>>> get thoughts on it before or as part of the Sea Sprint)
>>>>>>>> but didn't know where that would end up as I'm not able
>>>>>>>> to attend.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> It may remove a significant roadblock and help reduce
>>>>>>>> the stalling that's held up plone.com thus far, and
>>>>>>>> allow us to turn something great around for the project
>>>>>>>> sooner.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I've also been involved in the plone.com project since
>>>>>>>> working on the original marketing team and through the
>>>>>>>> recent mailing list, and I share Matt's frustrations on
>>>>>>>> bringing some focus to the project and making some
>>>>>>>> actual progress.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I think it would work well for the new plone.com
>>>>>>>> project. It neatly fit the criteria of a 'new modern
>>>>>>>> theme' and is a neat reference implementation of
>>>>>>>> bootstrap (which the early emails in this thread that
>>>>>>>> I've read seemed happy with). Best of all it is
>>>>>>>> available now... which can hopefully shift the
>>>>>>>> discussion from meta-bikeshedding as we're doing now...
>>>>>>>> to real proper bikeshedding on the actual plone.com
>>>>>>>> site ;-)
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> At present - it pointedly *isn't* a diazo theme (as
>>>>>>>> we've been waiting for the toolbar integration or a
>>>>>>>> clearer direction on clean integration points to avoid
>>>>>>>> what we've needed to do on other diazo projects).
>>>>>>>> Rather, it sets out to be a clean reference
>>>>>>>> implementation of a modern non-diazo plonetheme(.*).
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> It is also quite opinionated in terms of legacy cruft
>>>>>>>> and happily destructive in terms of ripping out cruft
>>>>>>>> from the registries (including KSS for 4.1/4.2), and
>>>>>>>> leaving a neat little Plone JS/CSS footprint.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Lastly, we worked on an API compatible modal overlay
>>>>>>>> replacement to "prepOverlay" from jqt-land, better
>>>>>>>> defined HTML5 data- semantics (and a compatible
>>>>>>>> javascript API) and IMO considerably tidier and more
>>>>>>>> consistent UI/UX. The JS part isn't quite polished but
>>>>>>>> the rest is functioning quite neatly and we have it in
>>>>>>>> use at the moment.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> So its fairly feature complete, and hopefully will be
>>>>>>>> helpful to progressing things.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Thanks all,
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Julian
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> -- Julian Coyne Unified Systems T:  1300 UNIFIED [1300
>>>>>>>> 864 343] M: 0438 658 466 [+61 438 658 466] E:
>>>>>>>> julian.coyne at unified.com.au W: www.unified.com.au
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Julian Coyne Unified Systems T:  1300 UNIFIED [1300 864
>>>>>>>> 343] M: 0438 658 466 [+61 438 658 466] E:
>>>>>>>> julian.coyne at unified.com.au W: www.unified.com.au
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On 5/09/2012 11:30 AM, Wyn Williams wrote: Hello all +1
>>>>>>>> one on that (theme/content), it is how most projects
>>>>>>>> normally work although in this case they will be very
>>>>>>>> close.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> TV1 seem to be an experienced Plone house and Im sure
>>>>>>>> they would want to work with tools like the theme
>>>>>>>> editor and Diazio anyway.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Rock and roll then :)
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Wyn
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On 09/05/2012 02:20 AM, Stone, Derrick J *HS wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>> The most important focus of this site is the
>>>>>>>>>>> content. It must be no bull-shizzle. The second
>>>>>>>>>>> most important focus should be an excellent,
>>>>>>>>>>> modern theme, which is responsive. Without these
>>>>>>>>>>> two items, Plone.com is not worth doing. It would
>>>>>>>>>>> be better for potential customers to simply
>>>>>>>>>>> wonder if the community has a professional
>>>>>>>>>>> standard.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> I do not think shell access should be required -
>>>>>>>>>>> Plone publishes content out of the box right? :p
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Derrick ________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>>> From: plone-com-bounces at lists.plone.org
>>>>>>>>>>> [plone-com-bounces at lists.plone.org] On Behalf Of
>>>>>>>>>>> Dylan Jay [djay at pretaweb.com] Sent: Tuesday,
>>>>>>>>>>> September 04, 2012 6:54 PM To: Alex Clark Cc:
>>>>>>>>>>> plone-com at lists.plone.org Subject: Re:
>>>>>>>>>>> [Plone-com] We need a new modern theme for
>>>>>>>>>>> plone.com.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> There's a lot of cooks in here already but since
>>>>>>>>>>> we just put together a site for our new service
>>>>>>>>>>> recently I'll put in 2c then go. - do content
>>>>>>>>>>> before the theme. The homepage in particular
>>>>>>>>>>> should support your main message. - we went for a
>>>>>>>>>>> design inspired by
>>>>>>>>>>> brightbox.com<http://brightbox.com> and
>>>>>>>>>>> squarespace.com<http://squarespace.com>. Long
>>>>>>>>>>> front page forming a tour of main key
>>>>>>>>>>> differentiators. - but use a professional
>>>>>>>>>>> designer, don't use pre rolled themes. - give the
>>>>>>>>>>> new theme editor a go.  Great way to get feedback
>>>>>>>>>>> as the theme is created and reduce friction
>>>>>>>>>>> created by deployment delays. Diazo ftw.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Dylan Jay Technical solution manager PretaWeb
>>>>>>>>>>> 99552830
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> On 05/09/2012, at 12:29 AM, Alex Clark
>>>>>>>>>>> <aclark at aclark.net<mailto:aclark at aclark.net>>
>>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Hi,
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> As far as I can tell, this has not been discussed
>>>>>>>>>>> so:
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Who wants to donate a new-modern-theme to the
>>>>>>>>>>> plone.com<http://plone.com> project? To get
>>>>>>>>>>> started, we're going to use the existing
>>>>>>>>>>> plone.org<http://plone.org> theme
>>>>>>>>>>> (http://pypi.python.org/pypi/plonetheme.ploneorg)
>>>>>>>>>>> but we hope to replace that with something
>>>>>>>>>>> better/newer later. If you have any ideas, please
>>>>>>>>>>> let us know. Ideally the theme requirements would
>>>>>>>>>>> be something like:
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> *   Based on Twitter bootstrap (but does not
>>>>>>>>>>> appear to be based on bootstrap, please) *
>>>>>>>>>>> Responsive (included with bootstrap) *
>>>>>>>>>>> Diazo-powered
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> But any and all theme donations will be
>>>>>>>>>>> considered and appreciated.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Alex
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> -- Alex Clark · http://pythonpackages.com
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>>> Plone-com mailing list
>>>>>>>>>>> Plone-com at lists.plone.org<mailto:Plone-com at lists.plone.org>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
> http://lists.plone.org/mailman/listinfo/plone-com
>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>>> Plone-com mailing list Plone-com at lists.plone.org
>>>>>>>>>>> http://lists.plone.org/mailman/listinfo/plone-com
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
> _______________________________________________ Plone-com
>>>>>>>>> mailing list Plone-com at lists.plone.org
>>>>>>>>> http://lists.plone.org/mailman/listinfo/plone-com
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>> Plone-com mailing list Plone-com at lists.plone.org
>>>>>>>> http://lists.plone.org/mailman/listinfo/plone-com
>>>>>>>>
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