<html><head></head><body style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space; ">Kim,<div> Thanks for making this list! I was actually going to ask you to do something similar for <a href="http://Plone.com">Plone.com</a>. We did a brainstorming session in Sorrento and it will be good to correlate both lists and see what we each came up with.</div><div><br></div><div>Working in the sector you do I think you are probably a lot closer to users than many developers are. I know that there have been a number of occasions where I have seen Plone 3rd party products developed by those in Education which I've looked at with my developer hat on and said 'wtf?! but it is just something simple'… but in many cases that 'simple' thing exactly solves a specific need or requirement that a user has had. And it is often that specific requirement that makes or breaks the adoption or use of Plone.</div><div><br></div><div>-Matt</div><div><br><div><div>On 28 May 2012, at 22:37, T Kim Nguyen wrote:</div><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"><blockquote type="cite"><div bgcolor="#FFFFFF"><div>I'd be tempted to make security a top 5 item.</div><div><br></div><div>At PSE we did some brainstorming as part of the PloneEdu web site sprint and came up with this (raw) list. The starred ones the ones we thought were most important.</div><div><br></div><div> Kim</div><div><br></div><div><h1 style="text-align: -webkit-auto; padding-left: 0px; padding-right: 0px; padding-top: 24pt; direction: ltr; margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; font-weight: bold; padding-bottom: 6pt; "><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 17px;">What Makes Plone Great</span></h1><div style="direction: ltr; margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; padding-top: 0px; padding-right: 0px; padding-bottom: 0px; padding-left: 0px; "><span> *Community</span></div><div style="direction: ltr; margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; padding-top: 0px; padding-right: 0px; padding-bottom: 0px; padding-left: 0px; "><span> *High security out of the box</span></div><div style="direction: ltr; margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; padding-top: 0px; padding-right: 0px; padding-bottom: 0px; padding-left: 0px; "><span> *education-focused “products” (modules, add-ons, extensions) (eg. FSD, timeslot)</span></div><div style="direction: ltr; margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; padding-top: 0px; padding-right: 0px; padding-bottom: 0px; padding-left: 0px; "><span> *intranets</span></div><div style="direction: ltr; margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; padding-top: 0px; padding-right: 0px; padding-bottom: 0px; padding-left: 0px; "><span> *improving your business processes</span></div><div style="direction: ltr; margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; padding-top: 0px; padding-right: 0px; padding-bottom: 0px; padding-left: 0px; "><span> *forms builder</span></div><div style="direction: ltr; margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; padding-top: 0px; padding-right: 0px; padding-bottom: 0px; padding-left: 0px; "><span> *free and open source</span></div><div style="direction: ltr; margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; padding-top: 0px; padding-right: 0px; padding-bottom: 0px; padding-left: 0px; "><span> *in-place editing</span></div><div style="direction: ltr; margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; padding-top: 0px; padding-right: 0px; padding-bottom: 0px; padding-left: 0px; "><span> *accessibility</span></div><div style="direction: ltr; margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; padding-top: 0px; padding-right: 0px; padding-bottom: 0px; padding-left: 0px; "><span> responsive / mobile-friendly</span></div><div style="direction: ltr; margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; padding-top: 0px; padding-right: 0px; padding-bottom: 0px; padding-left: 0px; "><span> scaleability</span></div><div style="direction: ltr; margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; padding-top: 0px; padding-right: 0px; padding-bottom: 0px; padding-left: 0px; "><span> file structure</span></div><div style="direction: ltr; margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; padding-top: 0px; padding-right: 0px; padding-bottom: 0px; padding-left: 0px; "><span> accessible URLs</span></div><div style="direction: ltr; margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; padding-top: 0px; padding-right: 0px; padding-bottom: 0px; padding-left: 0px; "><span> docs of various types</span></div><div style="direction: ltr; margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; padding-top: 0px; padding-right: 0px; padding-bottom: 0px; padding-left: 0px; "><span> Plone user groups</span></div><div style="direction: ltr; margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; padding-top: 0px; padding-right: 0px; padding-bottom: 0px; padding-left: 0px; "><span> accessibility compliance</span></div><div style="direction: ltr; margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; padding-top: 0px; padding-right: 0px; padding-bottom: 0px; padding-left: 0px; "><span> modern technology framework</span></div><div style="direction: ltr; margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; padding-top: 0px; padding-right: 0px; padding-bottom: 0px; padding-left: 0px; "><span> upgrade path</span></div><div style="direction: ltr; margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; padding-top: 0px; padding-right: 0px; padding-bottom: 0px; padding-left: 0px; "><span> easy to theme</span></div><div style="direction: ltr; margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; padding-top: 0px; padding-right: 0px; padding-bottom: 0px; padding-left: 0px; "><span> extendable</span></div><div style="direction: ltr; margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; padding-top: 0px; padding-right: 0px; padding-bottom: 0px; padding-left: 0px; "><span> workflow</span></div><div style="direction: ltr; margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; padding-top: 0px; padding-right: 0px; padding-bottom: 0px; padding-left: 0px; "><span> multilingual and global community</span></div><div style="direction: ltr; margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; padding-top: 0px; padding-right: 0px; padding-bottom: 0px; padding-left: 0px; "><span> handles lots of content</span></div><div style="direction: ltr; margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; padding-top: 0px; padding-right: 0px; padding-bottom: 0px; padding-left: 0px; "><span> publication workflows OOTB</span></div><div style="direction: ltr; margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; padding-top: 0px; padding-right: 0px; padding-bottom: 0px; padding-left: 0px; "><span> built in search</span></div><div style="direction: ltr; margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; padding-top: 0px; padding-right: 0px; padding-bottom: 0px; padding-left: 0px; "><span> fine grained permissions groups</span></div><div style="direction: ltr; margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; padding-top: 0px; padding-right: 0px; padding-bottom: 0px; padding-left: 0px; "><span> auth integration</span></div><div style="direction: ltr; margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; padding-top: 0px; padding-right: 0px; padding-bottom: 0px; padding-left: 0px; "><span> collections / reports / queries</span></div><div style="direction: ltr; margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; padding-top: 0px; padding-right: 0px; padding-bottom: 0px; padding-left: 0px; "><span> robust</span></div><div style="direction: ltr; margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; padding-top: 0px; padding-right: 0px; padding-bottom: 0px; padding-left: 0px; "><span> stable</span></div><div style="direction: ltr; margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; padding-top: 0px; padding-right: 0px; padding-bottom: 0px; padding-left: 0px; "><span> installable product modules</span></div><div style="direction: ltr; margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; padding-top: 0px; padding-right: 0px; padding-bottom: 0px; padding-left: 0px; "><span> zeo-enterprise scale OOTB</span></div><div style="direction: ltr; margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; padding-top: 0px; padding-right: 0px; padding-bottom: 0px; padding-left: 0px; "><span> conferences for edu</span></div><div style="font-family: Times; font-size: medium; -webkit-tap-highlight-color: rgba(26, 26, 26, 0.292969); -webkit-composition-fill-color: rgba(175, 192, 227, 0.230469); -webkit-composition-frame-color: rgba(77, 128, 180, 0.230469); -webkit-text-size-adjust: none; "><span><br></span></div><br>On May 28, 2012, at 11:04 AM, Matt Hamilton <<a href="mailto:matth@netsight.co.uk">matth@netsight.co.uk</a>> wrote:<br><br></div><div></div><blockquote type="cite"><div>Hi all,<div> I'm going to be representing Plone at a fairly informal local event, BathCamp who are running a CMS Smackdown:</div><div><br></div><div><a href="http://bathcamp.org/events/cms-smackdown/">http://bathcamp.org/events/cms-smackdown/</a></div><div><br></div><div>I've got 10 minutes to talk about 5 things I love about Plone and 5 things I hate. I'm up against 7 other CMSs. So I'm trying to think of my list of things. Many of the people at the event will generally be techies, so I won't be afraid to talk about some of the technical aspects. However the bit I'm struggling with is coming up with 5 things I hate ;) I'm hoping to mention how we are improving the things I hate</div><div><br></div><div>So my draft list so far:</div><div><br></div><div>5 Things I love about Plone:</div><div><br></div><div>- The Community (international events, people, etc)</div><div>- Buildout + Deployment (dev.cfg -> staging.cfg -> live.cfg, versioning eggs etc)</div><div>- The ZODB (pervasive data store… no need to think SQL etc)</div><div>- Diazo (Great way to theme sites + demo)</div><div>- Python [1]</div><div><br></div><div>5 Things I hate about Plone:</div><div><br></div><div>- Legacy (talk about ripping out stuff, Zope 4 etc)</div><div>- Documentation (talk about the swamp of old docs, but point out good new stuff eg. Developer Manual)</div><div>- Perception by Python developers (that is is old hat and boring: point out it does its job well and is mature)</div><div>- Everything in the catalog (talk about navigation using it etc. Point out move to parent pointers, use of Solr etc)</div><div>- Too easy to shoot yourself in the foot performance-wise (i.e., as ZODB is pervasive, you can accidentally load every object in the ZODB or mutate things you don't mean to).</div><div><br></div><div>Any thoughts on this list? Any other good viewpoints, ideas? Bearing in mind I have just two minutes per point!</div><div><br></div><div>-Matt</div><div><br></div><div>[1] Great quote from colleague: "When I used to program in Java I used to first think how to solve the problem, then I had to think how to code that in Java. With Python I think how to solve the problem, then just write it"</div><div><br><div apple-content-edited="true">
<div style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space; "><span class="Apple-style-span" style="border-collapse: separate; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: 2; text-align: -webkit-auto; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-vertical-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; "><div style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space; "><span class="Apple-style-span" style="border-collapse: separate; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: 2; text-align: -webkit-auto; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-vertical-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none; 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-webkit-border-vertical-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; "><div style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space; "><span class="Apple-style-span" style="border-collapse: separate; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: 2; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-vertical-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; "><div style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space; "><div style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-weight: normal; line-height: normal; "><blockquote type="cite"><div class="gmail_quote"><div style="word-wrap: break-word; "><div><div><div style="padding-top: 15px; padding-right: 15px; padding-bottom: 15px; padding-left: 0pt; float: left; width: 600px; font-family: helvetica, arial; font-size: 8pt; font-weight: bold; color: rgb(153, 153, 153); line-height: 8.5pt; letter-spacing: -0.2pt; "><div style="float: left; width: 150px; "><span style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); ">NETSIGHT</span><br><span style="color: rgb(34, 34, 34); "><br>Matt Hamilton</span><br>Technical Director<span style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); "><br></span></div><div style="float: left; width: 150px; "><span style="color: rgb(34, 34, 34); "></span><span style="color: rgb(34, 34, 34); ">Email</span><br><a href="mailto:iain@netsight.co.uk" target="_blank">matth@netsight.co.uk</a><br><br><span style="color: rgb(34, 34, 34); ">Telephone</span><br>+44 (0) 117 909 0901<br><span style="color: rgb(34, 34, 34); "><br></span><br></div><div style="float: left; width: 150px; "><span style="color: rgb(34, 34, 34); ">Web</span><br><a href="http://www.netsight.co.uk/" target="_blank">www.netsight.co.uk</a><span style="color: rgb(34, 34, 34); "></span><span style="color: rgb(34, 34, 34); "><br><br></span><span style="color: rgb(34, 34, 34); ">Address</span><br>40 Berkeley Square, Clifton <br>Bristol BS8 1HU</div></div></div></div></div></div></blockquote></div><font class="Apple-style-span" color="#999999" face="helvetica, arial"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 11px; line-height: 11px; "><b><br></b></span></font><div style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-weight: normal; line-height: normal; "><div class="gmail_quote"><div style="word-wrap: break-word; "><div></div></div></div></div></div></span></div></span></div></div></div></span><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"></div></span><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"></div></span><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"></div><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"><div><br></div><div><br></div><div><br></div><div><br></div><div><br></div><br class="Apple-interchange-newline">
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</div></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><div><span>_______________________________________________</span><br><span>Evangelism mailing list</span><br><span><a href="mailto:Evangelism@lists.plone.org">Evangelism@lists.plone.org</a></span><br><span><a href="https://lists.plone.org/mailman/listinfo/plone-evangelism">https://lists.plone.org/mailman/listinfo/plone-evangelism</a></span><br></div></blockquote></div>
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-webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; "><div style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space; "><span class="Apple-style-span" style="border-collapse: separate; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: 2; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-vertical-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; "><div style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space; "><div style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-weight: normal; line-height: normal; "><blockquote type="cite"><div class="gmail_quote"><div style="word-wrap: break-word; "><div><div><div style="padding-top: 15px; padding-right: 15px; padding-bottom: 15px; padding-left: 0pt; float: left; width: 600px; font-family: helvetica, arial; font-size: 8pt; font-weight: bold; color: rgb(153, 153, 153); line-height: 8.5pt; letter-spacing: -0.2pt; "><div style="float: left; width: 150px; "><span style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); ">NETSIGHT</span><br><span style="color: rgb(34, 34, 34); "><br>Matt Hamilton</span><br>Technical Director<span style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); "><br></span></div><div style="float: left; width: 150px; "><span style="color: rgb(34, 34, 34); "></span><span style="color: rgb(34, 34, 34); ">Email</span><br><a href="mailto:iain@netsight.co.uk" target="_blank">matth@netsight.co.uk</a><br><br><span style="color: rgb(34, 34, 34); ">Telephone</span><br>+44 (0) 117 909 0901<br><span style="color: rgb(34, 34, 34); "><br></span><br></div><div style="float: left; width: 150px; "><span style="color: rgb(34, 34, 34); ">Web</span><br><a href="http://www.netsight.co.uk/" target="_blank">www.netsight.co.uk</a><span style="color: rgb(34, 34, 34); "></span><span style="color: rgb(34, 34, 34); "><br><br></span><span style="color: rgb(34, 34, 34); ">Address</span><br>40 Berkeley Square, Clifton <br>Bristol BS8 1HU</div></div></div></div></div></div></blockquote></div><font class="Apple-style-span" color="#999999" face="helvetica, arial"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 11px; line-height: 11px; "><b><br></b></span></font><div style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-weight: normal; line-height: normal; "><div class="gmail_quote"><div style="word-wrap: break-word; "><div></div></div></div></div></div></span></div></span></div></div></div></span><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"></div></span><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"></div></span><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"></div></span><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"><div><br></div><div><br></div><div><br></div><div><br></div><div><br></div></span><br class="Apple-interchange-newline">
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